Now that is an achievement. We have been slowly avoiding the Airshow format
that has to have a Harrier, or F16's busting my eardrums or a jet powered
truck drag race.
Way back when EAA was about Experiemental Aviation. Now John Deere and Ford
get higher billing and more up front space than the homebuilts. The latest
notice from EAA about this years Oshkosh almost didn't mention anything
about the homebuilts. They even promote the LSAs as a method of driving
down the cost of aviation. Hoo Hah. Most of them are for more than
$100,000 and have similar restrictions to a certified ship.
I wish some one would get the EAA logo from EAA and let them have the WBAME:
Worlds Biggest Airshow and Marketing Event. They continue to try to be
something for everybody and have a vague everything focus..
We will be there this year but I sure don't like to drive 2500 miles to have
my ears damaged. Hell one of the best shows I've seen was the guy with the
Taylorcraft that sheds an aileron... He doesn't need 1000 watts.
We have been tending to go to just fly-ins where the personal aircraft are
more the central theme. It is rare that we are subjected to 200db noise
levels there.

Stu Fields wrote:
> Now that is an achievement. We have been slowly avoiding the Airshow format
> that has to have a Harrier, or F16's busting my eardrums or a jet powered
> truck drag race.
> Way back when EAA was about Experiemental Aviation. Now John Deere and Ford
> get higher billing and more up front space than the homebuilts. The latest
> notice from EAA about this years Oshkosh almost didn't mention anything
> about the homebuilts. They even promote the LSAs as a method of driving
> down the cost of aviation. Hoo Hah. Most of them are for more than
> $100,000 and have similar restrictions to a certified ship.
> I wish some one would get the EAA logo from EAA and let them have the WBAME:
> Worlds Biggest Airshow and Marketing Event. They continue to try to be
> something for everybody and have a vague everything focus..
> We will be there this year but I sure don't like to drive 2500 miles to have
> my ears damaged. Hell one of the best shows I've seen was the guy with the
> Taylorcraft that sheds an aileron... He doesn't need 1000 watts.
> We have been tending to go to just fly-ins where the personal aircraft are
> more the central theme. It is rare that we are subjected to 200db noise
> levels there.
>
>
>

Stu,

While I appreciate your feelings, I've got bunches of Taylorcraft hours, and
I'd HATE to lose an aileron!

Jeez... That's more excitement than I'd EVER want!

Something on par with losing a blade from a tail rotor, if you get my drift.

But as for EAA, take notice that is has changed.
There is money involved now.
Not yours or mine, but THEIRS.
That is going to drive the industry (yep, that's what it is now) for the
how-many years.

Aviation has always been expensive.
Trying to drive the cost down is a noble thing to do.

Question is, will it save the homebuilt category from the politicians?


--

Richard Lamb

PS: If I ever get airborne in a helicopter again, it would be with you...
So if I ever show up, please sound confident, ok?

R

"Stu Fields" > wrote in message
...

First, just bring along some of those EAR foam plugs that you should find at
most any FBO shop, lose that attitude, and enjoy the airshow!

Second, I also see the changes in the EAA that you are talking about and agree
that the EAA is losing focus. Myself, I have never built an experimental
airplane and probably never will, yet I have been supporting the EAA and
occasionally attending Oshkosh for decades. Probably MOST EAA members are more
like me than like you, so the apparent drift in the EAA's direction is not
surprising.

I think that the EAA's focus should be on affordable aviation, with more focus
on encouraging local chapters than on building an Aviation Disneyland in
Oshkosh.

Vaughn

"cavelamb" > wrote in message
m...
> Stu Fields wrote:
>> Now that is an achievement. We have been slowly avoiding the Airshow
>> format that has to have a Harrier, or F16's busting my eardrums or a jet
>> powered truck drag race.
>> Way back when EAA was about Experiemental Aviation. Now John Deere and
>> Ford get higher billing and more up front space than the homebuilts. The
>> latest notice from EAA about this years Oshkosh almost didn't mention
>> anything about the homebuilts. They even promote the LSAs as a method of
>> driving down the cost of aviation. Hoo Hah. Most of them are for more
>> than $100,000 and have similar restrictions to a certified ship.
>> I wish some one would get the EAA logo from EAA and let them have the
>> WBAME: Worlds Biggest Airshow and Marketing Event. They continue to try
>> to be something for everybody and have a vague everything focus..
>> We will be there this year but I sure don't like to drive 2500 miles to
>> have my ears damaged. Hell one of the best shows I've seen was the guy
>> with the Taylorcraft that sheds an aileron... He doesn't need 1000
>> watts.
>> We have been tending to go to just fly-ins where the personal aircraft
>> are more the central theme. It is rare that we are subjected to 200db
>> noise levels there.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Stu,
>
> While I appreciate your feelings, I've got bunches of Taylorcraft hours,
> and
> I'd HATE to lose an aileron!
>
> Jeez... That's more excitement than I'd EVER want!
>
> Something on par with losing a blade from a tail rotor, if you get my
> drift.
>
> But as for EAA, take notice that is has changed.
> There is money involved now.
> Not yours or mine, but THEIRS.
> That is going to drive the industry (yep, that's what it is now) for the
> how-many years.
>
> Aviation has always been expensive.
> Trying to drive the cost down is a noble thing to do.
>
> Question is, will it save the homebuilt category from the politicians?
>
>
> --
>
> Richard Lamb
>
> PS: If I ever get airborne in a helicopter again, it would be with you...
> So if I ever show up, please sound confident, ok?
>
> R

Richard: We will have to get to know each other much better if you are
going to ride with me in my single seat helicopter. Though my two seater
is down for transmission maintenance. We could set in it and pretend.
Yeah the only reason I maintain my EAA membership is to support their
lobbying efforts. They do manage to have a pretty loud voice in support of
aviation. I hope that they don't lose their original purpose for being.

Stu

"vaughn" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stu Fields" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> First, just bring along some of those EAR foam plugs that you should find
> at most any FBO shop, lose that attitude, and enjoy the airshow!
>
> Second, I also see the changes in the EAA that you are talking about and
> agree that the EAA is losing focus. Myself, I have never built an
> experimental airplane and probably never will, yet I have been supporting
> the EAA and occasionally attending Oshkosh for decades. Probably MOST EAA
> members are more like me than like you, so the apparent drift in the EAA's
> direction is not surprising.
>
> I think that the EAA's focus should be on affordable aviation, with more
> focus on encouraging local chapters than on building an Aviation
> Disneyland in Oshkosh.
>
> Vaughn

Vaughn: I know I'm getting blase about some of these airshow things. I
rarely look up anymore when some guy is tumbling his airplane all over the
sky. We've just seen it so many times. I've had all the Harrier hovers
that I want when I can do the same thing for a lot less noise and a lot less
fuel. Cavelamb said it well "Aviation Disneyland at Oshkosh". One of the
main reasons for me attending events like Oshkosh is to meet and talk to
others like me. It gets difficult if I have to wear ear plugs a large
percentage of the time. Expensive booth prices and you can't talk to
customers when the Harrier is hovering or the jets are coming by with full
afterburner.
Yes EAA has changed directions but the need for an Experimental Aviation
Association still exists. I belong to a local chapter and am amazed at the
amount of bureaucratic crap that has to go on to have a get-together of a
bunch of like-minded individuals. We've lost something valuable here.
Kathy & I produce the Experimental Helo Magazine and are finding a growing
group of people that aren't being serviced by EAA. Especially in the
Rotorcraft area.
Maybe the EAA should morph into ADLO. Aviation Disney Land Oshkosh. I like
that.

Stu Fields wrote:
> "cavelamb" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Stu Fields wrote:
>>> Now that is an achievement. We have been slowly avoiding the Airshow
>>> format that has to have a Harrier, or F16's busting my eardrums or a jet
>>> powered truck drag race.
>>> Way back when EAA was about Experiemental Aviation. Now John Deere and
>>> Ford get higher billing and more up front space than the homebuilts. The
>>> latest notice from EAA about this years Oshkosh almost didn't mention
>>> anything about the homebuilts. They even promote the LSAs as a method of
>>> driving down the cost of aviation. Hoo Hah. Most of them are for more
>>> than $100,000 and have similar restrictions to a certified ship.
>>> I wish some one would get the EAA logo from EAA and let them have the
>>> WBAME: Worlds Biggest Airshow and Marketing Event. They continue to try
>>> to be something for everybody and have a vague everything focus..
>>> We will be there this year but I sure don't like to drive 2500 miles to
>>> have my ears damaged. Hell one of the best shows I've seen was the guy
>>> with the Taylorcraft that sheds an aileron... He doesn't need 1000
>>> watts.
>>> We have been tending to go to just fly-ins where the personal aircraft
>>> are more the central theme. It is rare that we are subjected to 200db
>>> noise levels there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Stu,
>>
>> While I appreciate your feelings, I've got bunches of Taylorcraft hours,
>> and
>> I'd HATE to lose an aileron!
>>
>> Jeez... That's more excitement than I'd EVER want!
>>
>> Something on par with losing a blade from a tail rotor, if you get my
>> drift.
>>
>> But as for EAA, take notice that is has changed.
>> There is money involved now.
>> Not yours or mine, but THEIRS.
>> That is going to drive the industry (yep, that's what it is now) for the
>> how-many years.
>>
>> Aviation has always been expensive.
>> Trying to drive the cost down is a noble thing to do.
>>
>> Question is, will it save the homebuilt category from the politicians?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Richard Lamb
>>
>> PS: If I ever get airborne in a helicopter again, it would be with you...
>> So if I ever show up, please sound confident, ok?
>>
>> R
>
> Richard: We will have to get to know each other much better if you are
> going to ride with me in my single seat helicopter. Though my two seater
> is down for transmission maintenance. We could set in it and pretend.
> Yeah the only reason I maintain my EAA membership is to support their
> lobbying efforts. They do manage to have a pretty loud voice in support of
> aviation. I hope that they don't lose their original purpose for being.
>
> Stu
>
>

I dunno, Stu.

Maybe we ought to wait until the Baby Belle is back in operation.
:)

--

Richard Lamb

"cavelamb" > wrote in message
...
> Stu Fields wrote:
>> "cavelamb" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>> Stu Fields wrote:
>>>> Now that is an achievement. We have been slowly avoiding the Airshow
>>>> format that has to have a Harrier, or F16's busting my eardrums or a
>>>> jet powered truck drag race.
>>>> Way back when EAA was about Experiemental Aviation. Now John Deere and
>>>> Ford get higher billing and more up front space than the homebuilts.
>>>> The latest notice from EAA about this years Oshkosh almost didn't
>>>> mention anything about the homebuilts. They even promote the LSAs as a
>>>> method of driving down the cost of aviation. Hoo Hah. Most of them
>>>> are for more than $100,000 and have similar restrictions to a certified
>>>> ship.
>>>> I wish some one would get the EAA logo from EAA and let them have the
>>>> WBAME: Worlds Biggest Airshow and Marketing Event. They continue to
>>>> try to be something for everybody and have a vague everything focus..
>>>> We will be there this year but I sure don't like to drive 2500 miles to
>>>> have my ears damaged. Hell one of the best shows I've seen was the guy
>>>> with the Taylorcraft that sheds an aileron... He doesn't need 1000
>>>> watts.
>>>> We have been tending to go to just fly-ins where the personal aircraft
>>>> are more the central theme. It is rare that we are subjected to 200db
>>>> noise levels there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Stu,
>>>
>>> While I appreciate your feelings, I've got bunches of Taylorcraft hours,
>>> and
>>> I'd HATE to lose an aileron!
>>>
>>> Jeez... That's more excitement than I'd EVER want!
>>>
>>> Something on par with losing a blade from a tail rotor, if you get my
>>> drift.
>>>
>>> But as for EAA, take notice that is has changed.
>>> There is money involved now.
>>> Not yours or mine, but THEIRS.
>>> That is going to drive the industry (yep, that's what it is now) for the
>>> how-many years.
>>>
>>> Aviation has always been expensive.
>>> Trying to drive the cost down is a noble thing to do.
>>>
>>> Question is, will it save the homebuilt category from the politicians?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Richard Lamb
>>>
>>> PS: If I ever get airborne in a helicopter again, it would be with
>>> you...
>>> So if I ever show up, please sound confident, ok?
>>>
>>> R
>>
>> Richard: We will have to get to know each other much better if you are
>> going to ride with me in my single seat helicopter. Though my two
>> seater is down for transmission maintenance. We could set in it and
>> pretend.
>> Yeah the only reason I maintain my EAA membership is to support their
>> lobbying efforts. They do manage to have a pretty loud voice in support
>> of aviation. I hope that they don't lose their original purpose for
>> being.
>>
>> Stu
>
> I dunno, Stu.
>
> Maybe we ought to wait until the Baby Belle is back in operation.
> :)
>
> --
>
> Richard Lamb

Your thinking continues to show marked intelligence.

Stu

Expensive booth prices and you can't talk to
>customers when the Harrier is hovering or the jets are coming by with full
>afterburner.

You ought to try putting on a technical seminar and just when you get
to the hard-to-explain stuff that they need to know, those
fuel-to-noise machines come thundering by.

We've lost something valuable here.
>Kathy & I produce the Experimental Helo Magazine and are finding a growing
>group of people that aren't being serviced by EAA.

You must not be in the cattle business or you'd understand that EAA
has been "servicing" us for a goodly number of years.

{;-)

Jim

"Stu Fields" > wrote in message
...
>
> Vaughn: I know I'm getting blase about some of these airshow things. I
> rarely look up anymore when some guy is tumbling his airplane all over the
> sky. We've just seen it so many times.

Yep, me too. But that issue has nothing to do with how the EAA is running
things It just means that we are getting to be old reprobates for whom nothing
is new anymore. If the airshow gets boring, or hot, or too crowded, I just go
back to the exhibits and enjoy having the place to myself.

Vaughn

"vaughn" > wrote
>
> Yep, me too. But that issue has nothing to do with how the EAA is running
> things It just means that we are getting to be old reprobates for whom
> nothing is new anymore. If the airshow gets boring, or hot, or too
> crowded, I just go back to the exhibits and enjoy having the place to
> myself.

I make use of seeing the homebuilts in the showplane parking area while the
airshow is taking place one day. I place most of my attention on the
showplanes, and look up to see parts of the airshow that are interesting.
For example, Shawn Tucker has learned some new tricks like his hovering
hanging on the prop, and also has put a new twist on some of his tumbling
maneuvers. I also still enjoy seeing a P-51 doing more than making straight
and level passes down past the crowd.

On the most part, I agree with what is being said, but I enjoy seeing all of
the new products that are introduced, and like to see all of the exceptional
craftmanship displayed by many of the homebuilders.

I have family commitments that kept me away from airventure this year, but I
still will continue going when I can.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "vaughn" > wrote
>>
>> Yep, me too. But that issue has nothing to do with how the EAA is
>> running things It just means that we are getting to be old reprobates
>> for whom nothing is new anymore. If the airshow gets boring, or hot, or
>> too crowded, I just go back to the exhibits and enjoy having the place to
>> myself.
>
> I make use of seeing the homebuilts in the showplane parking area while
> the airshow is taking place one day. I place most of my attention on the
> showplanes, and look up to see parts of the airshow that are interesting.
> For example, Shawn Tucker has learned some new tricks like his hovering
> hanging on the prop, and also has put a new twist on some of his tumbling
> maneuvers. I also still enjoy seeing a P-51 doing more than making
> straight and level passes down past the crowd.
>
> On the most part, I agree with what is being said, but I enjoy seeing all
> of the new products that are introduced, and like to see all of the
> exceptional craftmanship displayed by many of the homebuilders.
>
> I have family commitments that kept me away from airventure this year, but
> I still will continue going when I can.
> --
> Jim in NC

We've seen some changes in the years we have been covering shows for first
the PRA magazine, and now the Experimental Helo magazine. Some of the shows
have slipped away from the Airshow format with its "Smoke & Noise" and
strayed more to the Fly-In type. The advantages for them has been a big
reduction in insurance fees. The plus for us booth operators is that the
majority of the attendents are pilots or wanabees and often people involved
directly in experimental aviation. Also as Jim Weir pointed out, if we are
making a presentation we don't have to wait on the Harrier, the sonic prop
tips on the T-6s or an F-14 at full afterburner. The down side for the
organizers is a reduced attendance. It comes down to quality vs quantity
and of course the $ gets involved. Examples of this is Copper State, &
Golden West to which we are now committed because of the quality of the
attendance. We also attend two helicopter events in the mid west which if
Oshkosh went away we would still go to those. In fact if Oshkosh was two
weeks later, we would not go. Right now it is the week following a great
helicopter event in Ohio.
While the presentation of the new products is great at Oshkosh, the noise
and repetitive nature of watching the same "Impossible" maneuvers is tending
to reduce my experience. Now the "World's Noisiest Airplane" has just
about put a cap on it.