Seeking tech info on LX7007

[Moshe Braner]

I am trying to install an old LX7007 Pro IGC vario/computer in a 2-seat
glider. I bought a complete used package including the 2 units in front
and 2 in rear and all the cabling. But I am lacking some useful
information that I hope somebody here on RAS could help me with.

After this model was made, the company split into two, and I cannot find
any mention of this model on the web site of either company. No
manuals, no software, no data, no firmware, zip, nada - it's been
"canceled". If I was in the market for a new glide computer, that track
record would raise red flags for me. You can get all the support you
want for a Cambridge unit that is twice as old. But I got a deal on
this old one and I hope it will work for a while.

So here are some questions I couldn't crack from the info in the manuals
I have. Perhaps there is information online from the companies after
all, if so, please tell me where?

There are at least 4 serial (RS232) ports on the main unit, and that's
not counting the RS485 bus. "PC" (doubles as "Colibri/LX20"), "PDA",
"IGC" and "User". How do they differ in functionality? Which one
should I use to connect an e-reader running Tophat (based on XCsoar) if,
besides basic GPS location data flowing from he LX, I want functionality
such as uploading tasks from Tophat to the LX, and downloading flight
logs from the LX into the e-reader?

The "PDA" port (only) also has a 5V power supply line, to power a PDA.
How much current can be sourced from it? My Nook might draw as much as
half an amp. Is that safe for the LX?

There is very little info on the slave (rear seat) units in the main
manual. Does anybody have a manual specifically for the slave units?

In the system I got, the main unit is an LX7007 Pro IGC, and the slave
unit is an LX7000 Pro IGC. Are there incompatibilities between them?

The slave "analog" unit is fed an RS485 cable (power and data) from the
front-seat unit, and that then daisy chains to the slave digital unit.
But that latter cable is non-standard, DB9 to DB15. Anybody got the
wiring diagram for that cable? What extra functionality do those extra
pins add? In the cables I got there seems to be another "PC port"
dangling from it (the little round 5-pin connector).

The flight logs from the LX7007 are written to its SD card as .LXN
files, not .IGC. (So much for standards!) SeeYou can convert those,
but then they are no longer "IGC secure" (for badges and records). I
have seen mentioned somewhere that later versions of the LX7007 firmware
switched to .IGC files. Is that correct? Which version of the firmware
does that, and how can I get it? If I can't get that, can I send the
..LXN files to the SSA badge dude?

Can anybody send me a copy of the "LXe" PC software that originally came
with the LX? Are versions of this software and versions of the hardware
forwards and backwards compatible? Is it worth having?

The airports and airspace databases need updates over time to stay
accurate. Have there been updates? How can I get something newer than
what's stored in it now? If I can't, can I override the old info for
specific airports with info I manually put into my turnpoints file?

Thanks for any info.

[kinsell]

On 2/3/21 8:04 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:

> Can anybody send me a copy of the "LXe" PC software that originally came
> with the LX? Are versions of this software and versions of the hardware
> forwards and backwards compatible?Â* Is it worth having?
>
> The airports and airspace databases need updates over time to stay
> accurate.Â* Have there been updates?Â* How can I get something newer than
> what's stored in it now?Â* If I can't, can I override the old info for
> specific airports with info I manually put into my turnpoints file?
>
> Thanks for any info.


I was just searching for LXe to try to support an old Colibri logger,
and found it on the LXNavigation website. Version 3.5.1.1

Airports and Airpace database was not there, but found a 2014 version on
an old computer. I can email that to you.

LXe and the database actually installed OK on w Win10 computer, but
complained about not finding any COMM ports. Those can be added
manually on Win10. haven't tried accessing the logger yet, but it may
actually still be usable on Win10.

Dave

[Paul Remde]

Hi Moshe,

I probably have a saved LX7007 Pro IGC manual and can answer most of your questions below. I'd rather talk to you over the phone (less work). Call me any time.

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
_______________________

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:01:41 AM UTC-6, Moshe Braner wrote:
> I am trying to install an old LX7007 Pro IGC vario/computer in a 2-seat
> glider. I bought a complete used package including the 2 units in front
> and 2 in rear and all the cabling. But I am lacking some useful
> information that I hope somebody here on RAS could help me with.
>
> After this model was made, the company split into two, and I cannot find
> any mention of this model on the web site of either company. No
> manuals, no software, no data, no firmware, zip, nada - it's been
> "canceled". If I was in the market for a new glide computer, that track
> record would raise red flags for me. You can get all the support you
> want for a Cambridge unit that is twice as old. But I got a deal on
> this old one and I hope it will work for a while.
>
> So here are some questions I couldn't crack from the info in the manuals
> I have. Perhaps there is information online from the companies after
> all, if so, please tell me where?
>
> There are at least 4 serial (RS232) ports on the main unit, and that's
> not counting the RS485 bus. "PC" (doubles as "Colibri/LX20"), "PDA",
> "IGC" and "User". How do they differ in functionality? Which one
> should I use to connect an e-reader running Tophat (based on XCsoar) if,
> besides basic GPS location data flowing from he LX, I want functionality
> such as uploading tasks from Tophat to the LX, and downloading flight
> logs from the LX into the e-reader?
>
> The "PDA" port (only) also has a 5V power supply line, to power a PDA.
> How much current can be sourced from it? My Nook might draw as much as
> half an amp. Is that safe for the LX?
>
> There is very little info on the slave (rear seat) units in the main
> manual. Does anybody have a manual specifically for the slave units?
>
> In the system I got, the main unit is an LX7007 Pro IGC, and the slave
> unit is an LX7000 Pro IGC. Are there incompatibilities between them?
>
> The slave "analog" unit is fed an RS485 cable (power and data) from the
> front-seat unit, and that then daisy chains to the slave digital unit.
> But that latter cable is non-standard, DB9 to DB15. Anybody got the
> wiring diagram for that cable? What extra functionality do those extra
> pins add? In the cables I got there seems to be another "PC port"
> dangling from it (the little round 5-pin connector).
>
> The flight logs from the LX7007 are written to its SD card as .LXN
> files, not .IGC. (So much for standards!) SeeYou can convert those,
> but then they are no longer "IGC secure" (for badges and records). I
> have seen mentioned somewhere that later versions of the LX7007 firmware
> switched to .IGC files. Is that correct? Which version of the firmware
> does that, and how can I get it? If I can't get that, can I send the
> .LXN files to the SSA badge dude?
>
> Can anybody send me a copy of the "LXe" PC software that originally came
> with the LX? Are versions of this software and versions of the hardware
> forwards and backwards compatible? Is it worth having?
>
> The airports and airspace databases need updates over time to stay
> accurate. Have there been updates? How can I get something newer than
> what's stored in it now? If I can't, can I override the old info for
> specific airports with info I manually put into my turnpoints file?
>
> Thanks for any info.

[[email protected]]

Here’s the manual.

https://pngc.co.uk/documents/instrument-manuals/LX7007Manual.pdf


Unfortunately, LxNavigation seems to have revamped their website recently. Pretty yes, but terrible to navigate and they seem to have eliminated all the links to legacy manuals.

[Moshe Braner]

On 2/3/2021 5:02 PM, wrote:
> Here’s the manual.
>
> https://pngc.co.uk/documents/instrument-manuals/LX7007Manual.pdf
>
>
> Unfortunately, LxNavigation seems to have revamped their website recently. Pretty yes, but terrible to navigate and they seem to have eliminated all the links to legacy manuals.
>

Dave Kinsell kindly pointed me to this page, which does have *some*
software and data offered for their "legacy" devices:
https://www.lxnavigation.com/support/legacy-devices/legacy-devices
- note that there are 3 "tabs" at the top, in faint gray font:
Software, Manuals, and Databases.

Why are their "databases" executable files I don't know.

[Paul Remde]

Hi Moshe,

It was nice talking with you yesterday.

The database files for LXe are executable programs because they are installation files. You need to run one to install it after installing LXe.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
_____________________________

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:39:56 PM UTC-6, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 2/3/2021 5:02 PM, wrote:
> > Here’s the manual.
> >
> > https://pngc.co.uk/documents/instrument-manuals/LX7007Manual.pdf
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, LxNavigation seems to have revamped their website recently. Pretty yes, but terrible to navigate and they seem to have eliminated all the links to legacy manuals.
> >
> Dave Kinsell kindly pointed me to this page, which does have *some*
> software and data offered for their "legacy" devices:
> https://www.lxnavigation.com/support/legacy-devices/legacy-devices
> - note that there are 3 "tabs" at the top, in faint gray font:
> Software, Manuals, and Databases.
>
> Why are their "databases" executable files I don't know.

[[email protected]]

Thanks. I withdraw my comment. Actually, when I went back into the new site, I was able to navigate it. I guess I previously was confused or they hadn’t added those files yet. I see they were all added mid-December.

[Moshe Braner]

On 2/4/2021 7:54 AM, Paul Remde wrote:
>
> Hi Moshe,
>
> It was nice talking with you yesterday.
>
> The database files for LXe are executable programs because they are installation files. You need to run one to install it after installing LXe.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> _____________________________
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:39:56 PM UTC-6, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> On 2/3/2021 5:02 PM, wrote:
>>> Here’s the manual.
>>>
>>> https://pngc.co.uk/documents/instrument-manuals/LX7007Manual.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, LxNavigation seems to have revamped their website recently. Pretty yes, but terrible to navigate and they seem to have eliminated all the links to legacy manuals.
>>>
>> Dave Kinsell kindly pointed me to this page, which does have *some*
>> software and data offered for their "legacy" devices:
>> https://www.lxnavigation.com/support/legacy-devices/legacy-devices
>> - note that there are 3 "tabs" at the top, in faint gray font:
>> Software, Manuals, and Databases.
>>
>> Why are their "databases" executable files I don't know.

Well that's one way to do it, and not my preferred way. A data file
should be a data file. They can tell you where to copy it to. Or have
the program (LXe) ask you to point to the current file location, and
then it can copy it to wherever it wants, add it into its list of what's
there, etc.

Moreover, a data file should be uploadable into the device via its SD
card slot, without using an app such as LXe. I guess this whole setup
was started before they added an SD card slot to the last versins of the
device. Back then EVERYTHING was done via serial cables and helper
apps. Ah, the bad old days...

I did manage to upload my turnpoints file into the device without LXe.
Did have to use SeeYou to convert the .cup file to a .da4 file, put that
on the SD card and then used the device menus to import it. Wish they'd
accepted the .cup format as is.

All the files imported and exported by this device (including the flight
logs, pilots info, saved settings...) are in proprietary binary formats.
Thus you can't examine or edit them "manually" (in a text editor),
like you can with .cup files for example, or XCsoar configuration files.
I know, I shouldn't complain about this device which is about 15 years
old, but that seems like yesterday.

[Moshe Braner]

To answer one of my own questions:

The LX7000 second-seat DIGITAL slave unit cable pinout:
It's a DB15 wired to a DB9 RS485. The (undocumented?) DB15 pinout is
similar to that of the ANALOG main unit (and also somewhat similar to
the main digital unit):
1,2,9 = ground shield
7,8,15 = +12V (red and white)
5,12 = RS485 data bus (black & yellow)
11,3 = serial communications - mine came with these pins wired to a
5-pin round "PC port" connector, not clear what functionality does this
port offer.

Curious whether any other of the 15 pins are active in this unit, e.g.,
SC and VP switches, speaker output?

[Moshe Braner]

Has anybody needed to replace the internal battery for the GPS? What
type of battery is it?

The GPS battery presumably runs the real time clock in the GPS module.
If this battery fails, when you start up the device the GPS screen will
not show the correct time of day until signals from the GPS satellites
are received. Also the GPS screen will not show the previous lat/lon
while it searches for the current location. And it will probably take
longer than normal to acquire a GPS location fix.

This is distinct from the internal coin battery for the IGC security,
which presumably also powers the memory that stores the user settings.

It seems that on my unit BOTH batteries need replacement. Does that
make sense (about 11 years since factory)?

[Dan Marotta]

I replaced the battery in an LX-7007 Pro IGC about 4 years ago and I
only found one battery inside. As it turned out, I could not find the
correct battery and so bought a couple of battery sockets from Amazon
and removed/replaced the battery socket. It was not difficult to do.

Prior to replacing the battery, my unit would be completely dead and
needing to reload the databases before each flight. I never did like
the thing and quickly replaced it with a ClearNav II.

Now, if you're talking about a Garmin 396 which came from the factory in
my Stemme, it has a rechargeable button battery buried deeply inside the
unit. When it dies, the unit forgets where it is and will not reload
the almanac. Garmin wanted $400 to replace the $2 battery but I found
complete instructions, including pictures, on line. I had to remove t
or 3 circuit cards but, other than delicate cables, it was a breeze.
With the replacement battery it locked on much quicker than I would have
imagined.

Dan
5J

On 2/8/21 10:43 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> Has anybody needed to replace the internal battery for the GPS?Â* What
> type of battery is it?
>
> The GPS battery presumably runs the real time clock in the GPS module.
> If this battery fails, when you start up the device the GPS screen will
> not show the correct time of day until signals from the GPS satellites
> are received.Â* Also the GPS screen will not show the previous lat/lon
> while it searches for the current location.Â* And it will probably take
> longer than normal to acquire a GPS location fix.
>
> This is distinct from the internal coin battery for the IGC security,
> which presumably also powers the memory that stores the user settings.
>
> It seems that on my unit BOTH batteries need replacement.Â* Does that
> make sense (about 11 years since factory)?

[Tim Newport-Peace[_7_]]

The GPS Engine in LX7007 is a U-BLOX TIM-LP (from 2006) and it would
appear that the Battery is Integral with the engine, so you may need to
replace the whole engine, which is obsolete, so a pin-compatible may be
the answer.

As you can't access the GPS engine without opening the case, this will
invalidate any IGC files. Getting a quote from LX Navigation to replace
both might be the better answer.

On 08/02/2021 20:30, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I replaced the battery in an LX-7007 Pro IGC about 4 years ago and I
> only found one battery inside.Â* As it turned out, I could not find the
> correct battery and so bought a couple of battery sockets from Amazon
> and removed/replaced the battery socket.Â* It was not difficult to do.
>
> Prior to replacing the battery, my unit would be completely dead and
> needing to reload the databases before each flight.Â* I never did like
> the thing and quickly replaced it with a ClearNav II.
>
> Now, if you're talking about a Garmin 396 which came from the factory in
> my Stemme, it has a rechargeable button battery buried deeply inside the
> unit.Â* When it dies, the unit forgets where it is and will not reload
> the almanac.Â* Garmin wanted $400 to replace the $2 battery but I found
> complete instructions, including pictures, on line.Â* I had to remove t
> or 3 circuit cards but, other than delicate cables, it was a breeze.
> With the replacement battery it locked on much quicker than I would have
> imagined.
>
> Dan
> 5J
>
> On 2/8/21 10:43 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> Has anybody needed to replace the internal battery for the GPS?Â* What
>> type of battery is it?
>>
>> The GPS battery presumably runs the real time clock in the GPS module.
>> If this battery fails, when you start up the device the GPS screen
>> will not show the correct time of day until signals from the GPS
>> satellites are received.Â* Also the GPS screen will not show the
>> previous lat/lon while it searches for the current location.Â* And it
>> will probably take longer than normal to acquire a GPS location fix.
>>
>> This is distinct from the internal coin battery for the IGC security,
>> which presumably also powers the memory that stores the user settings.
>>
>> It seems that on my unit BOTH batteries need replacement.Â* Does that
>> make sense (about 11 years since factory)?

[kinsell]

On 2/3/21 8:34 AM, kinsell wrote:
> On 2/3/21 8:04 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
>
>> Can anybody send me a copy of the "LXe" PC software that originally
>> came with the LX? Are versions of this software and versions of the
>> hardware forwards and backwards compatible?Â* Is it worth having?
>>
>> The airports and airspace databases need updates over time to stay
>> accurate.Â* Have there been updates?Â* How can I get something newer
>> than what's stored in it now?Â* If I can't, can I override the old info
>> for specific airports with info I manually put into my turnpoints file?
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>
>
> I was just searching for LXe to try to support an old Colibri logger,
> and found it on the LXNavigation website.Â* Version 3.5.1.1
>
> Airports and Airpace database was not there, but found a 2014 version on
> an old computer.Â* I can email that to you.
>
> LXe and the database actually installed OK on w Win10 computer, but
> complained about not finding any COMM ports.Â* Those can be added
> manually on Win10.Â* haven't tried accessing the logger yet, but it may
> actually still be usable on Win10.
>
> Dave

To follow up, LXe actually still runs on a Win10 computer, had to
install their special USB driver, then manually create a COMM port from
inside Device Manager.

Database files they provide are all German, African, or European, so
you'll need to provide your own data.