AviationBanter

AviationBanter (http://www.aviationbanter.com/index.php)
-   Military Aviation (http://www.aviationbanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

Ed Rasimus July 11th 04 05:09 PM

On 11 Jul 2004 04:31:51 GMT, (Bill Shatzer)
wrote:

Ed Rasimus ) writes:

-snip-

Sorry, Bill, but that simply isn't so. While "early outs" were
becoming available for a few specialties as early as '71,


Well, certainly much earlier than that. Heck -I- got an "early out"
in the summer of '67 which cut almost three full months of my
enlistment.


My first tour was '66 and it was mission count, not DEROS. Since 60%
of the folks starting the mission count tour didn't complete it, no
one was too worried about a fixed date DEROS. Support personnel,
however, were on a "controlled tour" which meant one year from the
date of departure from CONUS. Your three month early out would have to
be taken in the context of where you were stationed, your MOS/AFSC,
and your existing time in service.

the policy
didn't apply to overseas tours which were strictly controlled.


I seem to recall a couple members of my unit who received "early
outs" which not only cut their enlistment terms but also were
granted in advance of their scheduled DROS cutting a month or
so off their scheduled RVN tours. But, it was a long time ago,
perhaps I misremember.


Perhaps.

And, you really might want to look up the duration of Mr. Gore's
overseas assignment.


Everything I've seen sez it was early January, '71 through late
May, '71 with a scheduled discharge date of August 5, '71.

You have information to the contrary?


Here's a quote: "When they finally came, he would spend less than
five months in Vietnam, arriving on Jan. 8, 1971, to write newspaper
and magazine articles. He was discharged on May 24, 1971." (The
Washington Times National Weekly Edition Nov. 28 - Dec. 4, 1994)

I said Gore spent 151 days of a year tour. You replied that he only
got a two-month curtailment. The difference would be 151 days
(Jan-May???) versus 10 months x 30 days or 300 days. I think the
Washington Times dates, my statement, and your "Everything I've seen
sez" all indicate that your asssertion of a two month curtailment was
incorrect. So, we have information to the contrary.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

WalterM140 July 11th 04 05:13 PM

It's just neocon bitterness from a president and vice president who ever went
to war when they damn well should have.


You couldn't kick too hard with Bush going into the Air Guard -- those Century
series fighters -could- easily kill you (so I hear).

But Bush skated out on the last two years of his six year commitment, but then
has the gall to attack Senator Kerry's service. That needs to be confronted.

Bush skipped the last two years of his commitment. He didn't even go through an
officer candidate course.

When I say that Bush attacked Kerry's record, I mean of course that the Bush
campaign attacked Kerry. Bush probably has a little to do with this as he does
with carrying out his presidential functions, which seem to be to act just as a
figurhead.

Walt

WalterM140 July 11th 04 05:14 PM


Whence he graduated in circa 1970.
And the draft ended when exactly? Hmmm?


Edwards in 51 YO. That would put him in the 1971 HS class. The draft ended in
1972.

Walt

D. Strang July 11th 04 05:17 PM

"Steve Mellenthin" wrote
Ask yourself this question: how would you feel if your crew got to
go home after 3 months overseas, and you had to stay for duration
plus six months? Would you say "they went to war" as excited as
you are about JFKerry?


Always wondered about that early departure. Can anyone explain?


I think the story is, that he found out that you could request assignment
out of a war zone upon the award of three purple hearts. He then
went to sick call every time he got a scratch.



WalterM140 July 11th 04 05:26 PM

The "six week basic air man's (sic) course" is OTS.

Bush's military resume says he was enlisted prior to 3 September 1968.

This is the link:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc14.gif

I went to Officer Candidate School at Quantico. I was never (for that purpose)
considered as an enlisted man.

Now there -are- some differences between the Army/Air Force and Marines/Navy
terminology and methodology.

You might also use the correct terminology while spouting
your propaganda. The commissioning course is Officer Training School,
not Officer Training School which was the term during WW II for Army
"90 day wonders".


Oh, it wasn't Officer Training School, it was Officer Training School?


Again, officer candidates in the Marines/Navy are -not- considered to be
enlisted members.

Are you categoricially saying that ANG, Air Force or whatever -- that those
officer candidates -are- enlisted men?

James Webb has also said that Bush did not attend an officer candidate course.
I'll stick with that.

Walt

Steve Mellenthin July 11th 04 05:35 PM

Edwards in 51 YO. That would put him in the 1971 HS class. The draft ended
in
1972.


1973

ArtKramr July 11th 04 05:58 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: Ian MacLure
Date: 7/10/2004 11:32 PM Pa



We won the 2000 election.
We are going to win the 2004 election.
So who's bitter?

IBM


Bush was not elected. He was appointed. We'll fix that in November.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


ArtKramr July 11th 04 06:04 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: (WalterM140)
Date: 7/11/2004 6:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

But it was not manditory, a
sharp troop with a good record and test taking capability had a good chance.


Bush scored in the lowest percentile allowed to qualify for pilot training.
He
did not complete any sort of officer qualification course.

Walt


And he was a "C: student through school. Not exactly the most coloful crayon in
the box.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


BUFDRVR July 11th 04 06:08 PM

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Who did you support for president in 1992? 1996?


There's no way Kramer can answer that question without looking
foolish....again.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

ArtKramr July 11th 04 06:24 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: (WalterM140)
Date: 7/11/2004 6:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Kerry went to war. Bush didn't


Orwell rules here, Art. The hero is attacked and the shirker applauded.


Walt


Yup. It's the neocon way


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
AviationBanter.com