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-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

B2431 July 12th 04 06:02 PM

(John S. Shinal)
Date: 7/12/2004 11:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Cub Driver wrote:
can't see the aileron horn coming at you.


OW ! OW ! OW !

At least you managed not to pour avgas over the fresh wound
when checking the sump.


Never mind that, was the aileron horn damaged?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ian maclure July 12th 04 06:03 PM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:31:31 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

Anyone wounded three times could opt out.


Of course if its discovered that any of those were self
inflicted as it is alleged that Baby Killer Kerry did...


Seriously now. Have you got even a shred of proof of that?


More proof than you've got

No wonder this country is going in the toilet if people like you vote.


No, its going into the toilet because they let anybody with a
body a few degrees above room tempterature vote. In some
cases ( and guess which party they have historically been
associated with ) you don't even need to be breathing to vote.
That would certainly explain Algore. He's from the Zombie wing
of the Dimmocrips.

IBM

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ian maclure July 12th 04 06:11 PM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:37:10 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

But Bush skated out on the last two years of his six year commitment, but

then
has the gall to attack Senator Kerry's service. That needs to be

confronted.


You keep saying that, but you have yet to present any hard evidence of it.



Hard evidence.

What there is no hard evidence of is of Bush's attendance at a drill
after May, 1972, or a photo of him, or anyone who remembers him.


And why should there be a photo? The military isn't Life Magazine
you know.

The commanding officer to whom he was support to report in Alabama has said
categorically that Bush -did-not- report. The unit Bush was assigned to in


And this elderly gentleman's memory from 30 years ago si of course
100% accurate.

October 1973 is/was in Denver. Bush was at Harvard.


The unit in Denver was reportedly a holding unit for adminsitrative
purposes if I understand correctly. Seems an appropriate place to
put someone who's in grad school. The military does allow that you
know.

Bush skipped out on the last two years of his commitment.


Sez you or rather the voices in your head.

IBM

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ian maclure July 12th 04 06:12 PM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:33:37 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

Edwards in 51 YO. That would put him in the 1971 HS class. The
draft ended in 1972.


So, then, what you're saying is he elected not to volunteer for Vietnam.


I am pretty sure the particulars of that will come out.


Oh yes, of that you can be sure.
Edwards would be class of '70 and the draft ended in what '73 not 72.
Yes, indeedy....

IBM

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ian maclure July 12th 04 06:21 PM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:46:07 -0400, Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:

[snip]

Snicker. Most of the folks attending NCSU (Edwards' alma mater)
are on the five-year-plan for their four-year degrees, today.


Ah.......
Verrrrrry interesting.

IBM

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B2431 July 12th 04 06:23 PM

From: (WalterM140)

snip

No wonder this country is going in the toilet if people like you vote.

Walt


That was uncalled for.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ian maclure July 12th 04 06:25 PM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 05:03:25 +0000, Mike Williamson wrote:

Ian MacLure wrote:


[snip]

In his defense, I haven't seen any reports that he *intentionally*
wounded himeself, as is traditionally considered in the
self-inflicted wound category. Apparently this was more an instance
of carelessness than intent to injure himself.


Either way it does not reflect well on Miiister Kerry.
Evil or stupidity. Take your pick.
Mind you issuing skimmers real weapons that aren't
controlled by an FT rating is a very large risk IMHO.

IBM

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Sam Byrams July 12th 04 08:12 PM

All this brings up several things.

One, Bush learned to fly in the military at government expense, did
not complete his assigned commitment, and flew, if I understand ,
fourteen months after UPT and has not flown as PIC or SIC since.
Neither military or elsewise. (Not counting the ride out to the boat
of late.)

Kerry learned to fly not at government expense and apparently has
done so for a number of years.

Now, mind you, I don't like Bush or Kerry as a candidate. Bush was
born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. Kerry is also
apparently something of a rich kid, married Big Ketchup, Ivy League
(yecch), and to top it off is closely associated with a family I
detest and which makes my skin crawl for many reasons (not least of
which the same reason a certain baseball player hated them for every
day of the last 36 years of his life). I can tell you right now I'm
voting third party.

But-be honest-is there any reason I should prefer Bush over Kerry
from an aviation standpoint? Bush, a nonpilot as far as I'm concerned,
has done nothing for aviation in this country. Kerry isn't likely to
either, but how much worse could he be?

The other thing in all this discussion of what balls it takes to
strap on a single engine fighter, is the growing evidence that many
people are willing to pay a lot of money for the privilege. Once
reserved for places like Mojave, the warjet deal is penetrating down
to the backward Midwest. I saw a Sabre and a Hawker Hunter poking
their tails up among the Aztecs and King Airs at the local spam can
patch this week out here. My guess is it costs roughly five hundred
bucks an hour to fly a Sabre. And the civil warjet guys are killing
themselves at a rate that would have embarrassed the Air Force during
the glory days of "Every Man A Tiger".

In and of itself flying fighters is no more heroic than riding a
chopped Harley with the Hells Angels or wreck diving with open circuit
scuba gear. It's what one does, and why, that sometimes might be
heroic. But just climbing up there-if I hit the lottery and could get
the FAA to let me I'd buy-after working my way up a little-the wildest
fighter I could. Simply because it would be-this is 2004, Marilyn's
dead, and she'd be 78 anyway- the biggest ego blast in the world to
taxi up to the ramp at the local FBO in front of all those square-ass
Gulfstream and Lear crews. I know what the statistics are, and I don't
care. I suspect Bush Jr's motives were the same-booze, pussy and
kerosene!












Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really?


As Ed Rasimus has said: "Every time you kick the tires and light the
fire in a single-engine, single-seat Century Series jet, it can kill
you--all by itself without help from an enemy."
www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm


Steven P. McNicoll July 12th 04 08:22 PM


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

There's been no hint that Kerry's service was anything less than

exemplary.


The following letter appeared in the USA Today "Letters" section on June
25th last, page 8A:



Criticism of Kerry's Purple Heart is just

Retired U.S. army colonel David Hackworth defends presidential
candidate John Kerry's Purple Hearts. He correctly notes that they are
awarded for a wound that necessitates treatment by a medical officer and
that is received in action with an enemy ('The meaning of a Purple Heart,"
The Forum, June 16).

I was the commanding officer to whom Kerry reported his injury on Dec.
3, 1968. I had confirmed that there was no hostile fire that night and that
Kerry had simply wounded himself with an M-79 grenade round he fired too
close. He wanted a Purple Heart, and I refused. Louis Letson, the base
physician, saw Kerry and used tweezers to remove the tiny piece of
shrapnel - about 1 centi*meter in length and 2 millimeters in di*ameter.
Letson also confirmed that the scratch was inflicted with our M-79.

We admire Col. Hackworth, but he, above all people, knows why it is
unac*ceptable to nominate yourself for an award. It compromises the basic
military principle that we survive together. To promote yourself is to
denigrate your team. I hope Col. Hackworth will rethink his characterization
of Kerry's swift-boat comrades as "grousers" passing on "secondhand bilge."
In our case, this is firsthand knowledge, and our integrity is unquestioned.

Kerry orchestrated his way out of Viet*nam and then testified, under
oath, be*fore Congress that we, his comrades, had committed horrible war
crimes. This tes*timony was a lie and slandered honor*able men. We, who were
actually there, believe he is unfit to command our sons and daughters.

Grant Hibbard, retired commander US. Navy, Gulf Breeze, Fla.

Louis Letson, M.D. Retired lieutenant commander Medical Corps, US. Navy
Reserve Scottsboro, Ala.




Steven P. McNicoll July 12th 04 08:22 PM


"Regnirps" wrote in message
...

Sorry, you can only get one Purple Heart.


Plenty have several.




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