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-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

Jack July 13th 04 10:48 PM

Harry Andreas wrote:

Yah, but was it a V-tail Bonanza?


Of course, though he was a reasonably debonair sort, for a guy from Toledo.

That has the rep as the unforgiving GA ship, probably due to lack of training.


Oh please -- other than a little perceived yaw problem which may or may
not have been the fault of the forked tail -- it was and is just like
any other clean airplane.

Some airplanes are willing to ignore bad technique more than others --
just like some wives -- but none of them will ignore bad judgment.



Jack

Chris Mark July 13th 04 11:13 PM

The medal was re-created in 1932

As a bit of trivia, Douglas MacArthur got the first one. The backside is
engraved with a Number One. Mac also got the first Silver Star, which replaced
the citation star representing a mention in dispatches. He was big on medals
and reworked a lot of the old award system when he became Army CoS.


Chris Mark

NW_PILOT July 13th 04 11:17 PM

hey, what's wrong with my e-mail address it is a valid e-mail & I am the
owner of the domain that I use when I post on UseNet and a few other places
ware spam originates and I can filter it.


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0700, "NW_PILOT"
wrote:

If there is an election
this year I will be very surprised.


Oh yes, I forgot. The black helicopters will swoop in and take over
Washington. Is that before or after the draft is reinstated?

Control K!

(I find, interestingly enough, that kill-filing these people almost
always results in 1 message being deleted. Evidently they are fakes.
Take a look at steven's email address, for example.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum
www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org




Brooks Gregory July 13th 04 11:20 PM


"ian maclure" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:07:11 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

This documet shows conclusively that Bush performed no service for
16 months:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif



That document is a complete forgery!!! Hell, the forger didn't even know the
proper format for military dates.


--
If you really want to save the
environment, support a family farmer.

Brooks Gregory



Guy Alcala July 13th 04 11:24 PM

Jack wrote:

Harry Andreas wrote:

Yah, but was it a V-tail Bonanza?


Of course, though he was a reasonably debonair sort, for a guy from Toledo.


I suspect that one will go over (or under as the case may be) the heads of most
here, this being a military aviation newsgroup. Too bad. I used to go flying with
a buddy in a '61? Model 33 that his club owned, and he loved it, but compared to a
150/172 who wouldn't?

My personal favorite for transportation and sightseeing was another club's Cardinal
RG -- you had a great view downwards with no struts or wheels in the way, AND you
could see traffic above/in the turn direction because of the highly sloped
windscreen/aft-mounted wing. Possibly my opinion may be biased - AFAIR I could
never pry his hands off the Beech's controls so I could fly it, while I was usually
able to get some stick time in the RG;-) The Cardinal's great view seemed rather
important after one of my buddy's fellow club members (a CFI) and her student had a
head-on mid-air in a 172 as they climbed out of Oakland, with an inbound Cherokee
Six descending to enter the pattern -- they were presumably in each other's blind
spot. It may be that the Cardinal's better forward and upward view would have been
irrelevant in that particular case (if the Cessna was still climbing steeply), but
there was no doubt whatsoever how much easier it was in the Cardinal to look for
traffic you might be turning towards while in the pattern.

Guy


Steve Mellenthin July 14th 04 01:05 AM

But Viet
Nam was another matter entirely. There were more quetions than answers. More
doubts that convictions and many doubted the war in every sense. Kerry did.
His guilt was something he had to taken action aginst. And while I would
never
throw my medals away as he did, I can understand him but not agree with him.
And when it comes to the deaths of innocents I can understand his feelings in
the matter just as I can understand yours.
But you and I and Kerry know all too well what the elephant looks like. And
we
are just a small breed apart vis-a-vis those who have never seen the beast.


Arthur Kramer


Art, I understand all that too as you would expect. On the other hand, that
sort of behavior as his and especially his association with Jane Fonda cost
lives by encouraging the enemy. My ass was on the line literally while she was
being photographed sitting in the chair of a 37 or 57mm AAA gun and I only
wished one of our bombs had reached her. There are far better ways to express
one's opposition to a war than to rub **** in the faces of the guys who had to
face those guns on a daily basis. I am absolutely certain you would react the
same way had an American done likewise on a German AAA peice in the ETO.

So I have some very serious misgivings about John Kerry, his judgement, and his
true reasons for his wartime and post wartime behavior. I've no doubt that his
behavior encouraged the enemy just as Fonda's did. Then to seemingly discard
his medals as he did regardless of whether he earned them, only to later
display them proudly and allow others to play off his herosim, devotion to duty
and loyalty to his men is totally unconscionable to me.

Regardless of whether GWB was AWOL or not, at least none of his actions
discredited the nation and its warriors. But then we elected Clintion so I
guess duty, honor and country only matter to a few of us.

Steve



Just as in Iraq the beheadings draw far more publicity because they are
plastered all over the front page of the world's newspapers.

Fred the Red Shirt July 14th 04 01:15 AM

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
...
That while Japan did attack us, the Germans did
no such thing and we were dragged into the conflict for no good
reason.


In WWII Germany declared war on the US befor the US reciprocated.
Germany attacked US shipping befor we fired a shot at them.

Many other argumetns can be made but please, let's make them
within the context of historical reality.

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt July 14th 04 01:22 AM

ojunk (Steve Mellenthin) wrote in message ...
If I got wounded twice and got two Purple Hearts and a Silver Star I would

do
the same thing. Anyone with a brain in their head would do the same thing.

We apparently had a lot of brainless people in Vietnam then. Ditto in WWII?


The more missions you fly, the more times you get wounded the slimmer the
chances of survival are. But you know that, don't you?



Arthur Kramer


Guess it is all a matter of how committed you are and how important you think
the job is you have been assigned to do

In the military we call it service above self.
I get the feeling somehow that our friend JFkerry wasn't as committed to
service as he was to self.


It appears that Kerry lost his comittment to winning the Vietnam
War once he got there and saw things first hand.

It appears that he then committed to getting Americans out of Vietnam,
starting with himself, but not stopping with himself.

--

FF

ArtKramr July 14th 04 03:31 AM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: (Fred the Red Shirt)


The more missions you fly, the more times you get wounded the slimmer the
chances of survival are. But you know that, don't you?



Arthur Kramer


Guess it is all a matter of how committed you are and how important you

think
the job is you have been assigned to do


It has nothing to do with any of that. The more missions you fly the worse the
odds of survival. How commited you are is irrelevant.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


BUFDRVR July 14th 04 03:37 AM

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

snip

Many other argumetns can be made but please, let's make them
within the context of historical reality.


Get a clue! Ed was making a fictitious example.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


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