AviationBanter

AviationBanter (http://www.aviationbanter.com/index.php)
-   Military Aviation (http://www.aviationbanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

ArtKramr July 12th 04 11:09 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: "D. Strang"
Date: 7/12/2004 2:52 PM Pacific Standard Time


Kerry was and is a true decorated war hero.

But he said he murdered innocent women and children.


So did I. I was a bombardier over Europe.So what? Kerry at least had a shred
of honesty to admit it..






Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Steven P. McNicoll July 12th 04 11:13 PM


"Regnirps" wrote in message
...

Have you ever seen more than one?


Sure. I've seen the ribbons with oak leaf clusters. Each cluster
represents an additional award.



B2431 July 12th 04 11:14 PM

From: Ed Rasimus

snip


I initially learned to fly J-3 Cubs, PA-22 Colts and PA-18 Super Cubs
at my own expense. I can't afford to fly at my own expense today
because I married a nice women who wasn't the recipient of fortune.


"A nice women?" Ed, I smite thee with a tarver stick :)

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Bob Noel July 12th 04 11:46 PM

In article , kontiki
wrote:

Kerry ... does a poor immitation of Bill Clinton.


which could be considered something in waffle's favor.

--
Bob Noel

Ed Rasimus July 12th 04 11:59 PM

On 12 Jul 2004 22:09:50 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: "D. Strang"

Date: 7/12/2004 2:52 PM Pacific Standard Time


Kerry was and is a true decorated war hero.

But he said he murdered innocent women and children.


So did I. I was a bombardier over Europe.So what? Kerry at least had a shred
of honesty to admit it..


Let me try to construct a parallel between your experiences and mine,
so that we can possibly find a common ground to understand the
animosity I might feel.

You were a bombardier in B-26s over Europe. You went and fought and
stayed the course. You completed fifty missions.

Now, let's take someone in B-26s. Let's make it an aircraft
commander--not simply a crew-member, but a commander of the vehicle.
Let's say he had some minor injuries. Nothing serious. No
hospitalization, no lost limbs, no surgery. Just injuries. He opted
out of completing his tour. Lemme see, four months out of a one year
tour, so let's say he flew 17 missions out of the 50. Then he went
home. The rest of you on his crew slogged on without him.

But, when he got home, he didn't wear his decorations proudly and
support his brothers in arms still fighting the war that their nation
asked them to fight. He abandoned his uniform and spoke out against
the war. He went still further. He went to Congress, stood before the
US Senate and said that you and he had been guilty of war crimes. That
you had all committed atrocities. That you were rapists, baby-killers
and violators of the Geneva convention. Would he be exhibiting
"honesty to admit it"?

The German propaganda machine embraced his statements. Publicized them
and called him courageous. Would you? Would the other members of your
crew? Would you call him a hero?

Do you see a parallel here?

Meanwhile, your father, who fought valiantly for his country in WW I
(or the Spanish-American War) or whatever, began to speak out against
FDR. Accusing him of being a wealthy child of privilege who never wore
the uniform and dragged his country into WW II for his own benefit and
under false pretenses. That while Japan did attack us, the Germans did
no such thing and we were dragged into the conflict for no good
reason. Way too many were dying in Europe for the benefit of the
French who never liked us anyway. Besides, the war had dragged on much
too long and we ought to get rid of him.

Do you see a parallel here?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

BUFDRVR July 13th 04 12:00 AM

NW_PILOT wrote:

They have already taken away 45% of our
arms


Who's "they"? Surely you're not claiming a Republican administration has
enacted laws to restrict gun ownership? I think you're confused.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Ed Rasimus July 13th 04 12:02 AM

On 12 Jul 2004 22:14:01 GMT, (B2431) wrote:

From: Ed Rasimus


snip


I initially learned to fly J-3 Cubs, PA-22 Colts and PA-18 Super Cubs
at my own expense. I can't afford to fly at my own expense today
because I married a nice women who wasn't the recipient of fortune.


"A nice women?" Ed, I smite thee with a tarver stick :)

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Well, other than the garbled grammar, it's true. The first one was
nice, but the second one is exceptional. Neither came with a fortune.
J.F. Kerry seems to have gone for the gold twice.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

BUFDRVR July 13th 04 12:07 AM

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Let me try to construct a parallel between your experiences and mine,
so that we can possibly find a common ground to understand the
animosity I might feel.

You were a bombardier in B-26s over Europe. You went and fought and
stayed the course. You completed fifty missions.

Now, let's take someone in B-26s. Let's make it an aircraft
commander--not simply a crew-member, but a commander of the vehicle.
Let's say he had some minor injuries. Nothing serious. No
hospitalization, no lost limbs, no surgery. Just injuries. He opted
out of completing his tour. Lemme see, four months out of a one year
tour, so let's say he flew 17 missions out of the 50. Then he went
home. The rest of you on his crew slogged on without him.

But, when he got home, he didn't wear his decorations proudly and
support his brothers in arms still fighting the war that their nation
asked them to fight. He abandoned his uniform and spoke out against
the war. He went still further. He went to Congress, stood before the
US Senate and said that you and he had been guilty of war crimes. That
you had all committed atrocities. That you were rapists, baby-killers
and violators of the Geneva convention. Would he be exhibiting
"honesty to admit it"?

The German propaganda machine embraced his statements. Publicized them
and called him courageous. Would you? Would the other members of your
crew? Would you call him a hero?

Do you see a parallel here?

Meanwhile, your father, who fought valiantly for his country in WW I
(or the Spanish-American War) or whatever, began to speak out against
FDR. Accusing him of being a wealthy child of privilege who never wore
the uniform and dragged his country into WW II for his own benefit and
under false pretenses. That while Japan did attack us, the Germans did
no such thing and we were dragged into the conflict for no good
reason. Way too many were dying in Europe for the benefit of the
French who never liked us anyway. Besides, the war had dragged on much
too long and we ought to get rid of him.

Do you see a parallel here?



Ed, that was awsome, but Kramer will just ignore it, he has to.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

WalterM140 July 13th 04 03:11 AM

What there is no hard evidence of is Bush being AWOL.


This documet shows conclusively that Bush performed no service for 16 months:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif


Walt

Dave Holford July 13th 04 03:17 AM



Ed Rasimus wrote:

On 12 Jul 2004 22:09:50 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: "D. Strang"

Date: 7/12/2004 2:52 PM Pacific Standard Time


Kerry was and is a true decorated war hero.

But he said he murdered innocent women and children.


So did I. I was a bombardier over Europe.So what? Kerry at least had a shred
of honesty to admit it..


Let me try to construct a parallel between your experiences and mine,
so that we can possibly find a common ground to understand the
animosity I might feel.

You were a bombardier in B-26s over Europe. You went and fought and
stayed the course. You completed fifty missions.

Now, let's take someone in B-26s. Let's make it an aircraft
commander--not simply a crew-member, but a commander of the vehicle.
Let's say he had some minor injuries. Nothing serious. No
hospitalization, no lost limbs, no surgery. Just injuries. He opted
out of completing his tour. Lemme see, four months out of a one year
tour, so let's say he flew 17 missions out of the 50. Then he went
home. The rest of you on his crew slogged on without him.

But, when he got home, he didn't wear his decorations proudly and
support his brothers in arms still fighting the war that their nation
asked them to fight. He abandoned his uniform and spoke out against
the war. He went still further. He went to Congress, stood before the
US Senate and said that you and he had been guilty of war crimes. That
you had all committed atrocities. That you were rapists, baby-killers
and violators of the Geneva convention. Would he be exhibiting
"honesty to admit it"?

The German propaganda machine embraced his statements. Publicized them
and called him courageous. Would you? Would the other members of your
crew? Would you call him a hero?

Do you see a parallel here?

Meanwhile, your father, who fought valiantly for his country in WW I
(or the Spanish-American War) or whatever, began to speak out against
FDR. Accusing him of being a wealthy child of privilege who never wore
the uniform and dragged his country into WW II for his own benefit and
under false pretenses. That while Japan did attack us, the Germans did
no such thing and we were dragged into the conflict for no good
reason. Way too many were dying in Europe for the benefit of the
French who never liked us anyway. Besides, the war had dragged on much
too long and we ought to get rid of him.

Do you see a parallel here?

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8




Thank you Ed.
That puts it in perspective and, who knows, might make a few people
think.

Dave


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
AviationBanter.com