AviationBanter

AviationBanter (http://www.aviationbanter.com/index.php)
-   Soaring (http://www.aviationbanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Tow plane ideas (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=287245)

jackson maddux May 26th 21 07:37 PM

Tow plane ideas
 
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!

Dan Marotta May 26th 21 08:42 PM

Tow plane ideas
 
I did a few tows using a Maule back in the 80s and I didn't like it.*
Flying with a stick is much easier for towing and the visibility out of
the Maule did not compare to that from a Pawnee.

I've also towed with an L-19 and they're great but expensive to acquire,
180-hp Super cub and Citabria which were both great, a CalAir A-9B which
tows quite well but it's physically demanding to fly due to the location
of the stick and the fowler flaps are very difficult to deploy but it's
the easiest landing tail dragger I've ever flown.* I've also towed with
a 235-hp Pawnee which is very easy to fly and gets gliders into the air
quickly.* Finally I would highly recommend a Cessna Ag Wagon.* It's the
roomiest and most comfortable of all of the above, flies naturally and
easily, and is easy to land, but with 300-hp it's the hungriest of all
the rest.

Dan 5J
On 5/26/21 12:37 PM, jackson maddux wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!


[email protected] May 26th 21 09:10 PM

Tow plane ideas
 
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 2:37:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!


Before you get rid of that 160 Super Cub, have you tried a bigger “bush” prop
on the Super Cub? We used a 82” Bohrer prop with very good results. It performed
like it had 180 Hp, but without the 6 cylinder maintenance. For the required prop
to ground clearance, mid sized balloon tires are required though.

Our club operates a 235 Hp Pawnee as well, and when our membership shrank to where we couldn’t justify having two tow planes anymore, we sold the Cub to an Alaskan bush pilot.

It just so happens though, that we have unearthed a “new in box” 82/41 McCauley
(their version of the Bohrer) prop in the rafters of our hangar this past week. I believe the club will be looking to sell it sometime soon. People are trying to see if they can find the paperwork to accompany the prop right now.

If new tires and a new prop can get you what you need without having to find a PA-25,
you may be better off financially to try it. If you don’t like it, some guy from Alaska will probably fly down to take the upgraded Cub off your hands.

Mike Opitz
RO
www.NutmegSoaring.org (Freehold, NY)

[email protected] May 26th 21 10:56 PM

Tow plane ideas
 
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 2:37:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!


Don't know much about unusual towplanes, they are all just workhorses. I have had three Pawnee's and flown many more towplanes , currently have what we call Towpecker, a 235 that is actually about 270, and it pulls very well. The Pawnee is the go to towplane, but there are others that do quiet well like the old straight tail 182. I like the way the 188 flies a bit better that the Pawnee, also flew a 400 hp Brave that did very well.
Everybody wants a Pawnee, for obvious reasons, finding a towplane these days is not the problem, finding a tow pilot is another story. The Wilga makes a good towplane, but operational cost are high, also there are a few ugly looking French towplanes around, just cannot remember their names. Recently ran across a good old Air Tractor, but once again the operational cost are high. You must look at operational cost vs performance,
You might be better off going to 180 hp in that Super Cub, we did that back in the day in Miami and it worked very well. The Purist, Old Bob

son_of_flubber May 27th 21 01:13 AM

Tow plane ideas
 
From https://www.ygc.co.uk/info/our-fleet

Our powered fleet of tow planes consists of Two Piper Pawnees, and a Eurofox. The addition of the Eurofox has reduced the cost of aerotows substantially, it uses a much smaller amount of fuel per tow. They're also less polluting, so we're doing our bit for the environment too! We are presently upgrading the Eurofox to a more powerful 120bhp engine, and have begun the process of building a second aircraft in the same configuration to allow them to fulfil even more of the overall towing duties.


I wonder if the Eurofox with the 120bhp engine will be as capable as the Pawnee? Sutton Bank operates in high winds, but the elevation is less than 1000 MSL, and with cool weather they have low density altitudes. It also helps that the field is on top of an escarpment similar to Harris Hill. The UK is getting a lot of experience with the Eurofox. I think there is a similar aircraft sold in the USA with an 'American Sounding' name.

Great example of high wind glider operations at Sutton Bank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyaelQmA4U


Tony[_7_] May 27th 21 03:14 AM

Tow plane ideas
 
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 7:13:26 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
From https://www.ygc.co.uk/info/our-fleet

Our powered fleet of tow planes consists of Two Piper Pawnees, and a Eurofox. The addition of the Eurofox has reduced the cost of aerotows substantially, it uses a much smaller amount of fuel per tow. They're also less polluting, so we're doing our bit for the environment too! We are presently upgrading the Eurofox to a more powerful 120bhp engine, and have begun the process of building a second aircraft in the same configuration to allow them to fulfil even more of the overall towing duties.


I wonder if the Eurofox with the 120bhp engine will be as capable as the Pawnee? Sutton Bank operates in high winds, but the elevation is less than 1000 MSL, and with cool weather they have low density altitudes. It also helps that the field is on top of an escarpment similar to Harris Hill. The UK is getting a lot of experience with the Eurofox. I think there is a similar aircraft sold in the USA with an 'American Sounding' name.

Great example of high wind glider operations at Sutton Bank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyaelQmA4U


180hp stc for Supercubs exist for the 4cyl o-360, dunno what the earlier ref to 6 cyl maintenance was about. RV series liable to make a poor towplane, not a lot of wing and FAA boilerplate restrictions do not allow amateur-built aircraft to be used for towing. You could probably get it knocked down but don't expect help from SSA.

Jon May May 27th 21 08:29 AM

Tow plane ideas
 
On Thursday, 27 May 2021 at 03:15:00 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 7:13:26 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
From https://www.ygc.co.uk/info/our-fleet

Our powered fleet of tow planes consists of Two Piper Pawnees, and a Eurofox. The addition of the Eurofox has reduced the cost of aerotows substantially, it uses a much smaller amount of fuel per tow. They're also less polluting, so we're doing our bit for the environment too! We are presently upgrading the Eurofox to a more powerful 120bhp engine, and have begun the process of building a second aircraft in the same configuration to allow them to fulfil even more of the overall towing duties.


I wonder if the Eurofox with the 120bhp engine will be as capable as the Pawnee? Sutton Bank operates in high winds, but the elevation is less than 1000 MSL, and with cool weather they have low density altitudes. It also helps that the field is on top of an escarpment similar to Harris Hill. The UK is getting a lot of experience with the Eurofox. I think there is a similar aircraft sold in the USA with an 'American Sounding' name.

Great example of high wind glider operations at Sutton Bank https://www..youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyaelQmA4U

180hp stc for Supercubs exist for the 4cyl o-360, dunno what the earlier ref to 6 cyl maintenance was about. RV series liable to make a poor towplane, not a lot of wing and FAA boilerplate restrictions do not allow amateur-built aircraft to be used for towing. You could probably get it knocked down but don't expect help from SSA.


I think I flew that Northers!
What has not been said is the engine problems with the Eurofox.
There are no Eurofoxes currently flying at ygc because of engine problems.
Any one interested should contact them, they are very motivated as it has cost a fortune in engines because the engine supplier (not Rotax) is yet to accept liability for several sub 100 hour engines.
Other Rotax based engines are available but the total grunt needed to get a heaver 2 seater in the air safely requires as many HP as you can get.
At the time I had a Duo Discus xlt and a 200lbs partner; with the mk1 smaller engine 'fox we needed the escarpment and the curve of the earth to get to release hight.

Roy B. May 27th 21 12:39 PM

Tow plane ideas
 
You might give some thought to the Citabria 7GCBC - 180 hp with flaps. It's a nice plane with a good power/weight ratio.
Prices on L-19s have gone crazy and they are all +50 years old. Pawnees are OK but you get limited on your ability to train new tow pilots, parts are hard to get, and they all smell bad.
ROY

[email protected] May 27th 21 07:16 PM

Tow plane ideas
 
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:39:32 AM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
You might give some thought to the Citabria 7GCBC - 180 hp with flaps. It's a nice plane with a good power/weight ratio.
Prices on L-19s have gone crazy and they are all +50 years old. Pawnees are OK but you get limited on your ability to train new tow pilots, parts are hard to get, and they all smell bad.
ROY


Is that why the motor glider enthusiast say that I stink?

[email protected] May 27th 21 07:31 PM

Tow plane ideas
 
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 2:16:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:39:32 AM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
You might give some thought to the Citabria 7GCBC - 180 hp with flaps. It's a nice plane with a good power/weight ratio.
Prices on L-19s have gone crazy and they are all +50 years old. Pawnees are OK but you get limited on your ability to train new tow pilots, parts are hard to get, and they all smell bad.
ROY

Is that why the motor glider enthusiast say that I stink?


All humor aside, I am planning on rebuilding one final and last tow plane. I am buying an original Pawnee 150 model and doing a complete restoration just like my old Yellow Gorilla. No hopper, no spray anything, just a bare bones frame and wings. The powerplant will be the IO390, with DER approval, regular tips and no droops, Tinted windows except for windshield, and a few more goodies that will really make the old girl look good. I think I will name this one KIng Tow Kong! Any ideas on the paint scheme?


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
AviationBanter.com