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-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

Steven P. McNicoll July 15th 04 04:05 AM


"Bill Shatzer" wrote in message
...

Assumed but not proven. In any case irrelevant if the folks
-thought- they were in a battle.


Kerry's crew said there was no enemy fire, so the folks didn't think they
were in a battle.



You think those folks in the Bradley who got zapped by a blue
on blue Maverick didn't get PHs? There was no -real- battle,
they were just motoring along when the A-10 mistook them for
a T-72 or whatever. The A-10 driver -thought- it was a battle.


Irrelevant.



"Purported" experience. The things have to cover a minimum
distance before they arm themselves and that distance is
sufficient to place the shooter outside of the blast/shrapnel
radius.

I recall one story from the vietnam conflict where an army
surgeon got written up for removing an unexploded M-79 round
from an ARVN trooper. -He- got shot by friendly fire but the
round hadn't traveled far enough to arm itself.


Based on the best information, Kerry was not entitled to that award.



Ian MacLure July 15th 04 04:50 AM

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in
:

[snip]

But those are combatants with - literally - a lot more room for
manoeuvre. Flying formation bombing raids was rather more like
Napoleonic infantry forming square under artillery fi each roundshot
fired at the formation could kill or maim four or five men, and
individual skill made no difference at all to the enemy gunners' point
of aim and the flight of the shot.


Interesting analogy. In the age of linear tactics, infantry in
line were less vulnerable to artillery than in the square but
cavalry could make hash of them. And vice versa.
Had, for instance, the French cavalry at Waterloo had horse artillery
with them they might have been able to make an impression on the
British Squares. Cambronne and the Old(?) Guard weren't so lucky.
Had the clash of the Guards proceeded with the French column coming
in behind cavalry they might have been able to overrun a British
Guards square instead of being shot to pieces.

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source


Ron July 15th 04 04:58 AM

Kerry was and is a true decorated war hero. And it is driving the neocons nut
especially when we look at the war records of president Cheney and vice
president Bush..


Arthur Kramer


So was Dole and Bush 41. Did you vote for them?


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India


Peter Stickney July 15th 04 05:40 AM

In article ,
Guy Alcala writes:
Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:24:59 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Jack wrote:

Harry Andreas wrote:

Yah, but was it a V-tail Bonanza?

Of course, though he was a reasonably debonair sort, for a guy from Toledo.

I suspect that one will go over (or under as the case may be) the heads of most
here, this being a military aviation newsgroup.


You don't give us enough credit. I chuckled at the pun.


I did qualify it with most ;-) I knew a few would get it, but the percentage will be a
lot lower than if it were posted to a general aviation group, where they'd presumably be
rolling in the aisles en masse.


Oh, I dunno. If a Debonair exercized a bit & slimmed down a bit, it
would probably serve as a Mentor.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

C J Campbell July 15th 04 06:38 AM


"Dude" wrote in message
...
If he gets fooled by the Bush administration, should we let him represent

us
in dealings with truly professional diplomats and world leaders?


Exactly the point. That is why you won't see Kerry going around saying that
Bush is stupid and why he probably wishes his 'supporters' would stop saying
it, too.



Guy Alcala July 15th 04 07:25 AM

Peter Stickney wrote:

In article ,
Guy Alcala writes:
Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:24:59 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Jack wrote:

Harry Andreas wrote:

Yah, but was it a V-tail Bonanza?

Of course, though he was a reasonably debonair sort, for a guy from Toledo.

I suspect that one will go over (or under as the case may be) the heads of most
here, this being a military aviation newsgroup.

You don't give us enough credit. I chuckled at the pun.


I did qualify it with most ;-) I knew a few would get it, but the percentage will be a
lot lower than if it were posted to a general aviation group, where they'd presumably be
rolling in the aisles en masse.


Oh, I dunno. If a Debonair exercized a bit & slimmed down a bit, it
would probably serve as a Mentor.


Before we end up (s)punning in, I hereby declare a moratorium on all puns based on the names
of Beech (or any other company's: I can feel someone loading up with the Tutor even as I
write) a/c names. Sure, I know it's probably futile, but the effort has to be made. This is
_not_ s.m.n. ;-)

Guy


Ron July 15th 04 07:57 AM

And
tell me someone in his position with his quals would have got the deal
he got if his father hadn't been a war hero congressman. Apparently
his UPT performance should have put him in multi or helos: and
normally someone without specifically in demand attributes should have
had to go active duty to get UPT at that time anyway. Yes, that's as I
understand it and no, I wasn't there.



Have any sources for that? Apparently he was quite good at UPT, from what IPs
said.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India


Ron July 15th 04 08:02 AM


Yah, but was it a V-tail Bonanza?
That has the rep as the unforgiving GA ship, probably due to lack of
training.


Nothing wrong with a V-tail bonanza really, except that it is a pretty clean
airframe, and will build up speed quickly.

Same with the Malibus that had some mid air breakups in the early 80s.
Momentary inattention can cause airspeed to build quickly, and then if someone
just yanks back on the stick hard...well, the results are predictable.

Doctors are just famous for buying more plane than their abilties warrant.
Plus some who used them for work, had rather long days and were flying when
they were very fatigued. The joke about the Bonanza being the "Forked tail
doctor killer", in reality was more about the pilots than the plane.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India


Jack July 15th 04 03:40 PM

Sam Byrams wrote:

[Mason's book claims] the T-38 Talon was a big challenge for people
whose total experience consisted of under 200 hours in the T-37.


In the mid and late 60's it would have been less than 100 hrs in the
Tweet for studs transitioning to the Talon, and nobody didn't like the T-38.


Jack


Regnirps July 15th 04 04:01 PM

(ArtKramr) wrote:

It has nothing to do with any of that. The more missions you fly the worse the
odds of survival. How commited you are is irrelevant.


I agree, but only if yu look at the ensemble of flights. Each flight is not
more dangerous than the next. Every time yu survive, your chances start over on
the next mission. Same as rolling dice. Rolling five boxcars in a row doesn't
increase the odds that you won't on the 6th throw -- each throw is an
independent event. (This assumes a random risk which is an ideal that certainly
isn't true, as each mission is different. But how do you measuer how different?
Count the holes afterword?).

-- Charlie Springer



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