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-   -   Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9357)

Cub Driver June 8th 04 10:28 AM

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:31:54 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

Did he bail early? Alleged, unproven, but even if he did so did lots of
other folks,


Well, he was transferred to inactive status in October 1973, and
formally discharged in November 1974. So what appears to have happened
is that he swapped six months of Guard-for-training for a year on
inactive reserve. In the normal course of events he would have
finished his hitch in May 1974.

He served the equivalent of 25 months on active service ("active duty
for training") over the course of six and one-half years. As noted,
that was a month more than I spent in the army, and I would spit in
the eye of anyone, MOH winner included, who told me I didn't serve.
Damn straight I did!

Bush's service is neither mysterious nor particularly interesting. The
first four years were exemplary, the last two perfunctory. Evidently
what happened was twofold: a) the war was winding down, and with it
the Guard's need for him and his need for the Guard; and b) the Guard
was no longer flying the F-102A, and it was worth nobody's time to
train him in another aircraft.

www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum
www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

Steven P. McNicoll June 8th 04 12:11 PM


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

He jumped a 500 person waiting list. There's no issue over whether Bush

got
preferential treatment. The issue is that he did not fulfil his

obligation.
He clearly did not.


The "big lie" doesn't seem to be working. Now what are you going to do?



KeithK June 8th 04 12:22 PM

In article ,
(WalterM140) wrote:

Agreed. Bush used family influence to get into and out of the guard.


Did he? I find no evidence of either, t


He jumped a 500 person waiting list. There's no issue over whether Bush got
preferential treatment. The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.

Walt


And all 500 of those people were qualified to be an F-102 pilot?
Just because you're on the bottom of the list doesn't mean you are not
the first qualified for a position, and willing to leave on their
training schedule.

Steven P. McNicoll June 8th 04 02:17 PM


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

This link shows conclusively that Bush did not earn the requisite
50 points for a year's satisfactory service:

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/g...-73arfspe1.pdf


Actually, it doesn't.



Steven P. McNicoll June 8th 04 02:21 PM


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

No it's not. The primary source (the document I linked to) cannot
be trumped by secondary sources beholden to Bush or his benefactors.


The primary source you linked to is incomplete. It's trumped by primary
sources that are complete.



Bush did not sucessfully complete his obligatory service.


It's been proven that he did.



George Z. Bush June 8th 04 03:30 PM

WalterM140 wrote:
It is not at all unusual for an individual to fall short in one year's
Guard training and to make it up the following year. That' seems to be
what Bush did in his last two years of service.


Where is Bush's certificate of Honorable Discharge?


I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time ago. The
real question is how much influence was exerted by his father the Congressman to
get it issued. The answer to that little question seems to be clouded by smoke
and mirrors, as our Repug friends are wont to say. Smoke usually coming from
fire, I daresay that his Congressional hand is in it somewhere although I doubt
that, what with two presidents in the family, the public will ever learn the
truth about it.

George Z.



George Z. Bush June 8th 04 03:36 PM

KeithK wrote:
In article ,
(WalterM140) wrote:

Agreed. Bush used family influence to get into and out of the guard.

Did he? I find no evidence of either, t


He jumped a 500 person waiting list. There's no issue over whether Bush got
preferential treatment. The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.

Walt


And all 500 of those people were qualified to be an F-102 pilot?
Just because you're on the bottom of the list doesn't mean you are not
the first qualified for a position, and willing to leave on their
training schedule.


The odds are that at least 50 or more would have scored higher than the 25th
%ile in the aptitude test. He had no special qualifications to fly an F-102,
much less than any other jet or other powered aircraft. You don't seriously
believe that not one of those five hundred above him on the waiting list
wouldn't have given an arm or a leg for the opportunity to get into pilot
training. Anybody who thinks that is deluding himself.

George Z.



Kevin Brooks June 8th 04 03:48 PM


"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
WalterM140 wrote:
It is not at all unusual for an individual to fall short in one year's
Guard training and to make it up the following year. That' seems to be
what Bush did in his last two years of service.


Where is Bush's certificate of Honorable Discharge?


I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time ago.

The
real question is how much influence was exerted by his father the

Congressman to
get it issued. The answer to that little question seems to be clouded by

smoke
and mirrors, as our Repug friends are wont to say. Smoke usually coming

from
fire, I daresay that his Congressional hand is in it somewhere although I

doubt
that, what with two presidents in the family, the public will ever learn

the
truth about it.


You really don't know anything about how service is credited in the Guard
and Reserves, do you? Why don't you just come out and admit that instead of
tossing out unsubstantiated "seems to's", "daresays", and "doubts", which in
their sum total value as evidence are about as compelling as the usual
National Enquirer or Weekly World News article?

Brooks


George Z.





OXMORON1 June 8th 04 04:22 PM

George wrote:
The odds are that at least 50 or more would have scored higher than the 25th
%ile in the aptitude test. He had no special qualifications to fly an F-102,
much less than any other jet or other powered aircraft. You don't seriously
believe that not one of those five hundred above him on the waiting list
wouldn't have given an arm or a leg for the opportunity to get into pilot
training. Anybody who thinks that is deluding himself.


I doubt that he got any more consideration than the son of the civil service
secretary in Group HQ or the son of the SMSgt Maintenace supervisor in the CAM
Sqdn or the Airlift Sqdn CO's next door neighbor's son (who mowed the CO's law
for 6 years while in grade school and Jr Hi.)

He definitely got more consideration than most guys off the street or the goofy
kid from the local teacher's college or the local Penecostal preacher's kid.

He probably didn't get as much consideration as the All State QB who was going
to the same school as the State Adjudant General. "We'll talk about teaching
you to fly later son, Hell we'll even make you an officer."

oxmoron1
MFE


Steven P. McNicoll June 8th 04 04:27 PM


"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time
ago. The real question is how much influence was exerted by his father
the Congressman to get it issued.


Well, since his father wasn't a Congressman at the time, the answer has to
be, "None".




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