AviationBanter

AviationBanter (http://www.aviationbanter.com/index.php)
-   Military Aviation (http://www.aviationbanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

Jack July 15th 04 07:23 PM

Jeff Crowell wrote:


While each throw is statistically independent (assuming honest dice,
naturally), the fact that they are honest dice requires that the most
common throw be a seven. The more consecutive boxcars you
throw, the higher the probability that the next throw will NOT be
a 12. Boxcards is not a statistically likely event. Each throw **is**
an independent event, but the total population of throws is governed
by the overall statistical distribution.


The total distribution is not "governed" by anything you can name,
except in hindsight, and is therefor no governance at all.

You must make up your mind -- either each roll is an independent event
or it is not.

In aviation, designers refer to "a wing of infinite length" when
analyzing and describing airfoils. In a sample of "an infinite number of
rolls of the dice" it is perhaps easier for you to see that you have no
basis for your claim of governance according to "statistical
distribution", and each roll must have the same probabilities as the
previous roll and the following roll.

It is necessary for statisticians to understand before they can explain.
Unfortunately for many, circular argument is as much a fallacy in the
use of statistics as it is everywhere else.


Jack

Ron Parsons July 15th 04 08:40 PM

In article ,
Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:40:29 -0500, Jack
wrote:

Sam Byrams wrote:

[Mason's book claims] the T-38 Talon was a big challenge for people
whose total experience consisted of under 200 hours in the T-37.


In the mid and late 60's it would have been less than 100 hrs in the
Tweet for studs transitioning to the Talon, and nobody didn't like the T-38.


You've got that right. I had 132 hours in Tweets before Talons. The
UPT syllabus dropped that to 120 with introduction of the T-41
screening. No problems. Later with better simulators the total UPT
syllabus was reduced to 188 hours with less than half of that coming
prior to T-38 qualification.

The T-38 has been a great airplane for 42 years of training and with
the upgraded glass cockpit looks like it will be active in SUPT for
another 20 years at least.

Easy to fly, no adverse characteristics. Reliable. I wound up with
about 1500 hours in Talons, more than 1200 accrued as an instructor in
Fighter Lead-In teaching new instructor candidates. (And taking the
occasional recreational trip to ski in CO/UT, visit the sea-food
paradises of FL or the sexpots of LSV.)


Preceded you a little bit. Did the T-34, Tweet & T-bird. Old T-bird had
a lot of inertia with full tips and a lot of slack in the stick.

There was a noticeable drop in instrument skills and ability to handle
older aircraft when the all Tweet/Talon guys started coming out the end
of the pipeline. They were just TOO easy to fly.

Our T-34/Tweet instructors were "civilian" at least technically. Mine
was actually one of those much reviled in another tread TANG types, in
fact became GWB's commander in the Deuce.

My best friend, then and now was another instant airman to lieutenant
guardsmen. A second guard classmate went on to command his state guard
with 2 stars on his shoulders. None of us saw Vietnam. All 3 of us
managed 30+ years of airline.

Beats working for a living.

--
Ron Parsons

Fred the Red Shirt July 15th 04 08:50 PM

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
On 13 Jul 2004 17:15:57 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
...
That while Japan did attack us, the Germans did
no such thing and we were dragged into the conflict for no good
reason.


In WWII Germany declared war on the US befor the US reciprocated.
Germany attacked US shipping befor we fired a shot at them.

Many other argumetns can be made but please, let's make them
within the context of historical reality.


This is called "allegory"--I honestly don't believe that Art had a
father in the Spanish-American War ...


Of course not.

But your choice of allegory furthered the myth that the US declared
war on Germany first in WWII. It is a persistant myth that needs
debunking whenever it is implied.

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt July 15th 04 08:51 PM

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message ...
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

snip

Many other argumetns can be made but please, let's make them
within the context of historical reality.


... Ed was making a fictitious example.


Unless I am mistaken the part I corrected was not INTENTIONALLY
ficticious.

--

FF

Brooks Gregory July 15th 04 09:16 PM

John Kerry, he flew an Evinrude and John Edwards, well, he just got high.


--
If you really want to save the
environment, support a family farmer.

Brooks Gregory



Ed Rasimus July 15th 04 09:23 PM

On 15 Jul 2004 12:50:02 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
On 13 Jul 2004 17:15:57 -0700,
(Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
...
That while Japan did attack us, the Germans did
no such thing and we were dragged into the conflict for no good
reason.

In WWII Germany declared war on the US befor the US reciprocated.
Germany attacked US shipping befor we fired a shot at them.

Many other argumetns can be made but please, let's make them
within the context of historical reality.


This is called "allegory"--I honestly don't believe that Art had a
father in the Spanish-American War ...


Of course not.

But your choice of allegory furthered the myth that the US declared
war on Germany first in WWII. It is a persistant myth that needs
debunking whenever it is implied.


Ahhh, hoist on my own petard. As a chronic debunker of persistent
myths, I must accede to your demands. My parallelism of FDR going to
war against Germany when it was the Japanese who attacked us was much
too obtuse in the relationship of the current argument that we went to
war in Afghanistan & Iraq when the attackers of 9/11 were Saudi.

Please debunk me whenever I imply. And, I will reciprocate. Hopefully
in understandable metaphor.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus July 15th 04 09:29 PM

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:08:57 -0400, (Peter
Stickney) wrote:

Well, I do see your point. But now that you mention it, you did know
that the nickname at Canadair and in the CanForce for the Malay CL-41
COIM variant equivalant to teh A-37 was the "Shooter Tutor"


And a two-seat A-4 with guns would be a Scooter Shooter Tutor?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Brett July 15th 04 09:59 PM

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote
(BUFDRVR) wrote in message

...
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

snip

Many other argumetns can be made but please, let's make them
within the context of historical reality.


... Ed was making a fictitious example.


Unless I am mistaken the part I corrected was not INTENTIONALLY
ficticious.


The information you provided as a "correction" was historical incorrect.




Guy Alcala July 16th 04 01:02 AM

Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:08:57 -0400, (Peter
Stickney) wrote:

Well, I do see your point. But now that you mention it, you did know
that the nickname at Canadair and in the CanForce for the Malay CL-41
COIM variant equivalant to teh A-37 was the "Shooter Tutor"


And a two-seat A-4 with guns would be a Scooter Shooter Tutor?


A pox on both your houses! ;-)

Guy


BUFDRVR July 16th 04 04:15 AM

Sam Byrams wrote:

[Mason's book claims] the T-38 Talon was a big challenge for people
whose total experience consisted of under 200 hours in the T-37.


I found the T-38 easier to fly than the Tweet. It was a bit "tricky" landing,
but it was also easy to learn how to land it well.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
AviationBanter.com