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-   -   Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9357)

Lisakbernacchia June 11th 04 05:40 PM

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT,
(Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry

was
at war?


Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"


How many Purple Hearts do you have? Is ir true you are a warrior who lost his
war?


Lisakbernacchia June 11th 04 05:42 PM

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:59:56 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, .....


If, in your entire career flying bomb-carrying combat aircraft, you ever
jettisoned your bomb load for whatever reason on other than your assigned
bona-fide target (let's say in a free fire zone), there are some who might

make
the argument that you most certainly did commit either an atrocity or a war
crime if your bombs landed on innocent enemy civilians. I personally don't

care
to pursue that point, but you ought not be shocked to learn that some people
might, and they're not necessarily unpatriotic because they feel that way.


"War crimes" need to be defined as violations of international accords
regarding the conduct of armed conflict. We can't ascribe the term to
whatever offends our particular sensibilities or suits our political
needs of the moment.

Jettisoning weapons in emergencies, for personal defense, etc, is NOT
a war crime. There is considerable difference between jettisoning a
weapons load and targeting innocents. One is acknowledged as an
unavoidable risk of a combat zone while the other is most assuredly
proscribed.

A "free-fire zone" is, in its entirety an area of unrestricted weapons
employment with only small exceptions, such as hospitals, refugee
camps, churches (religious buildings), and white flags exempt.
Delivering in a free-fire zone is not a war crime.

Certainly there are some who "might make the argument" that I "most
certainly did commit either an atrocity or a war crime (that's either
an interesting distinction or a redundancy) IF your bombs landed on
innocent enemy (oxymoron???) civilians." But making the argument isn't
following the definition of a war crime. Some might even accuse the
military of genocide or wholesale murder, but they would be employing
a despicable level of hyperbole.

The purpose of military operations is to "kill people and break
things". Doing anything less is a sure route to defeat.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"


As an expert on defeat, why did you get your ass beaten in Viet Nam?

Lisakbernacchia June 11th 04 05:45 PM

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT,
(Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry

was
at war?


Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus


Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry was
at war? ANSWER THE QUESTION


OXMORON1 June 11th 04 05:56 PM

BuffyToU "asked"
So "Heroism in battle" is the same as being stupid and reckless.


Heroism is one thing, going against policy and beaching/grounding your boat in
an area known to have recently contained enemy troops, to recover an empty RPG
launcher is stupid and endangers your crew. This is leadership?

Oxmoron1

B2431 June 11th 04 06:01 PM

From: (Lisakbernacchia)
Date: 6/11/2004 11:45 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus

Date: 6/11/2004 11:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT,
(Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry

was
at war?


Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus


Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry
was
at war? ANSWER THE QUESTION


Why should he? You have already made up your mind despite the facts.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Ed Rasimus June 11th 04 06:08 PM

On 11 Jun 2004 16:40:05 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"


How many Purple Hearts do you have? Is ir true you are a warrior who lost his
war?


I have no Purple Hearts. The idea is to kill or wound the enemy
without being killed or wounded yourself. You might do a quick rerun
of George C. Scott's Patton speech, pay attention to the part about
"making the other poor, dumb ******* die for his country."

I take great pride in being acknowledged as a warrior. Thank you for
that. No, I lost no wars. I returned a winner along with hundreds of
other warriors.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus June 11th 04 06:09 PM

On 11 Jun 2004 16:45:51 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus


Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry was
at war? ANSWER THE QUESTION


No, it is not true.

For details, you might want to go back and read the thread.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

B2431 June 11th 04 06:23 PM

From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 12:08 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 16:40:05 GMT,
(Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"


How many Purple Hearts do you have? Is ir true you are a warrior who lost

his
war?


I have no Purple Hearts. The idea is to kill or wound the enemy
without being killed or wounded yourself. You might do a quick rerun
of George C. Scott's Patton speech, pay attention to the part about
"making the other poor, dumb ******* die for his country."

I take great pride in being acknowledged as a warrior. Thank you for
that. No, I lost no wars. I returned a winner along with hundreds of
other warriors.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Ed, please make that hundreds of thousands.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Kevin Brooks June 11th 04 06:51 PM


"Lisakbernacchia" wrote in message
...
Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:59:56 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, .....

If, in your entire career flying bomb-carrying combat aircraft, you ever
jettisoned your bomb load for whatever reason on other than your

assigned
bona-fide target (let's say in a free fire zone), there are some who

might
make
the argument that you most certainly did commit either an atrocity or a

war
crime if your bombs landed on innocent enemy civilians. I personally

don't
care
to pursue that point, but you ought not be shocked to learn that some

people
might, and they're not necessarily unpatriotic because they feel that

way.

"War crimes" need to be defined as violations of international accords
regarding the conduct of armed conflict. We can't ascribe the term to
whatever offends our particular sensibilities or suits our political
needs of the moment.

Jettisoning weapons in emergencies, for personal defense, etc, is NOT
a war crime. There is considerable difference between jettisoning a
weapons load and targeting innocents. One is acknowledged as an
unavoidable risk of a combat zone while the other is most assuredly
proscribed.

A "free-fire zone" is, in its entirety an area of unrestricted weapons
employment with only small exceptions, such as hospitals, refugee
camps, churches (religious buildings), and white flags exempt.
Delivering in a free-fire zone is not a war crime.

Certainly there are some who "might make the argument" that I "most
certainly did commit either an atrocity or a war crime (that's either
an interesting distinction or a redundancy) IF your bombs landed on
innocent enemy (oxymoron???) civilians." But making the argument isn't
following the definition of a war crime. Some might even accuse the
military of genocide or wholesale murder, but they would be employing
a despicable level of hyperbole.

The purpose of military operations is to "kill people and break
things". Doing anything less is a sure route to defeat.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"


As an expert on defeat, why did you get your ass beaten in Viet Nam?


He didn't. And you are hereby plonked for your demonstrated stupidity.

Brooks



Steven P. McNicoll June 11th 04 08:41 PM


"Lisakbernacchia" wrote in message
...

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while

Kerry was
at war?


No.




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