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-   -   Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9357)

Tammy June 10th 04 04:55 PM

No. Why don't you fill us in.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net...
"Tammy" wrote in message
om...

I know that Kerry earned four or five medals for bravery under fire or
similar action. Does anyone know how many medals for heroism Cheney
and Bush earned. I heard that it was less than Kerry.


It appears some of those awards were likely unearned. Have you heard why
Kerry didn't complete his Vietnam service?


Steven P. McNicoll June 10th 04 05:13 PM


"Tammy" wrote in message
om...

No. Why don't you fill us in.


I haven't heard either. It appears Kerry won't talk about it.



Leslie Swartz June 10th 04 05:34 PM

The first time you posted this, you were mistaken (as refuted in this
venue).

The second time you posted this, you were a liar (as refuted again in this
venue).

Now that you have posted this untruth a third time, what does that make you?

Steve Swartz




"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

Nobody gets to COLLECT the money. Trudeau was giving it to a charity
of his choice.


That's true....the contest rules were that if someone presented credible

and
valid evidence of Bush's military service, the money would be donated in

his
name to the USO. Here's the rule and, if you don't believe me, I've also
included the link so you can see for yourself:

"Q: Is there some sort of hitch?
A: Well, yes, but it's a hitch for a good cause. The winner won't actually
receive the reward for himself; instead we'll be donating $10,000 in his

name to
the USO. That way everyone's a winner, including GBT's tax accountant"

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/bush_guard.html

He only gave it to the USO after unsuccessfully waiting for months for

somebody
to come forward with some credible evidence. When nobody did, he turned

the
money over to the USO even though there was no winner.

George Z.





Jim Yanik June 10th 04 07:08 PM

Ed Rasimus wrote in
:

On 10 Jun 2004 08:21:52 GMT, (WalterM140) wrote:


Bush was released after 5 years, 4 months and five days of a six year
commitment.

If he didn't get special favor, how did that happen?


And Kerry was released from active duty after how long?

Let's put the time in context. The Vietnam War had ended, the
requirements for the military were being cut back. The TANG was
converting from F-102 to F-101 requiring retraining and the training
was longer than Bush' remaining service commitment. The Guard allows
transfers from active to inactive. "Early Out" programs were rampant.

Get over it.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


I got a 6 month "early out" in 1974 from the USAF.I jumped at the chance to
get it,was the first one to apply on my base.(LG Hanscom Fld,Ma.)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

Jim Yanik June 10th 04 07:10 PM

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
k.net:


"Tammy" wrote in message
om...

No. Why don't you fill us in.


I haven't heard either. It appears Kerry won't talk about it.



Gee,what's he got to hide?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

Steven P. McNicoll June 10th 04 07:15 PM


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .

Gee,what's he got to hide?


To be fair, there may be nothing to hide. But not talking about it at all
suggests there is something to hide. With the way his campaign has been
going you can bet that if he believed it would help he'd be talking about it
everywhere.



John S. Shinal June 10th 04 07:20 PM

(WalterM140) wrote:
Did he bail early? Alleged, unproven

No it's not. Follow this link:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/ANG22.gif
It shows 5 years, 4 months and 5 days service out of a six year commitment.


This period of the Vietnam era, a lot of people in every
service branch were released early, particularly Reserve or Warrant
officers. It was called a 'drop' and was done as an administrative
matter all the time. A drop of over 180 days is notable, but 90 day
drops were common. If you want to allege influence, it was over the
length of the drop, not over the fact that he got one.




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Ed Rasimus June 10th 04 07:35 PM

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:08:22 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik
wrote:

I got a 6 month "early out" in 1974 from the USAF.I jumped at the chance to
get it,was the first one to apply on my base.(LG Hanscom Fld,Ma.)


My advice is don't run for political office.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

George Z. Bush June 10th 04 09:22 PM


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:39:44 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


Did you also know that Mr. Kerry also stupidly and recklessly risked his

men
and warship to win the medals?


Isn't it hilarious how "stupidly and recklessly" impressed the awarding
authorities so much that they approved the award of a Silver Star and a

Bronze
Star to him? But what do those jerks know, right? They were just Navy

captains
and admirals.

George Z.

Dare we bring up LBJ's Silver Star?


When did you start needing my permission? But why do you want to compare a
Texas congressman on active duty with a 23 year old boat driver who, at that
point, had no markers out that he could call on for somebody to run interference
for him? Other than the piece of hardware that evolved, aren't they apples and
oranges? One was a field grade officer with political clout and the other a
green company grade guy. Or am I not remembering it right?

George Z.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8




Ed Rasimus June 10th 04 10:29 PM

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:22:48 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:39:44 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


Did you also know that Mr. Kerry also stupidly and recklessly risked his

men and warship to win the medals?

Isn't it hilarious how "stupidly and recklessly" impressed the awarding
authorities so much that they approved the award of a Silver Star and a

Bronze Star to him? But what do those jerks know, right? They were just Navy
captains and admirals.
George Z.

Dare we bring up LBJ's Silver Star?


When did you start needing my permission? But why do you want to compare a
Texas congressman on active duty with a 23 year old boat driver who, at that
point, had no markers out that he could call on for somebody to run interference
for him? Other than the piece of hardware that evolved, aren't they apples and
oranges? One was a field grade officer with political clout and the other a
green company grade guy. Or am I not remembering it right?

George Z.


I think you aren't remembering it right. LBJ's service was hardly
"active duty" and the SS mission was absurd.

My point was that medals vary. There are a lot of heroic events that
gain no award and a lot of awards that followed minimalist events.

My opinion has always been that medals are often the result of being
in the wrong place at the right time and then doing something stupid.
I'll freely admit that my Silver Star came for a mission that I
shouldn't have even launched on. But, I survived, the target was hit
and a fortuitous positioning of another bird with a strike camera
provided the evidence.

I might add, though, that my SS is in the box and hasn't been thrown
over any fences. You can tell it is mine, because my name is engraved
on the back--which is what they do for presentation.

Many have been questioning the circumstances of Kerry's award, but
that isn't the point of emphasis in my criticism of the man. My gripe
is his conduct afterward which was clearly for political gain and at
the expense of a lot of his "brothers" who were defamed by his
statements.

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, and served
honorably for a considerably longer period of combat than Kerry.
Please don't expect me to like a man who has accused me and my friends
of the opposite.




Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


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