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-   -   F-14 on the History Channel's "Modern Marvels" (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=10570)

Brian J. McCann October 10th 03 06:17 AM

F-14 on the History Channel's "Modern Marvels"
 
A couple of night ago the History Channel aired a program about the
F-14. During the promo it was stated that the Tomcat is the world's
fastest fighter. I dunno, every aviation book in my house puts it
clearly behind the F-15 and the MiG 25.

Also, the program stated that the Shah of Iran ordered a fly-off
between the F-14 and the F-15 in order to decide which one he was
gonna buy. But when the narrator was talking about the Eagle, they
showed footage of what was clearly an F-5.

So, what's going on here? Am I wrong, is the Tomcat actually faster
than the Eagle. And what's up with the F-5 footage? Did the US offer
the Shah F-5s or F-15s? Did the documentary show the wrong footage,
or did the narrator misread the copy, or was he given the wrong copy?
When I get confusing information from a documentary it makes me doubt
the validity of the entire work.

Did anyone else see the program, or can anyone give me some clear and
unimpeachable facts?

Thanks in advance,
Brian J. McCann

Keith Willshaw October 10th 03 07:18 AM


"Brian J. McCann" wrote in message
om...
A couple of night ago the History Channel aired a program about the
F-14. During the promo it was stated that the Tomcat is the world's
fastest fighter. I dunno, every aviation book in my house puts it
clearly behind the F-15 and the MiG 25.

Also, the program stated that the Shah of Iran ordered a fly-off
between the F-14 and the F-15 in order to decide which one he was
gonna buy. But when the narrator was talking about the Eagle, they
showed footage of what was clearly an F-5.

So, what's going on here? Am I wrong, is the Tomcat actually faster
than the Eagle. And what's up with the F-5 footage? Did the US offer
the Shah F-5s or F-15s? Did the documentary show the wrong footage,
or did the narrator misread the copy, or was he given the wrong copy?
When I get confusing information from a documentary it makes me doubt
the validity of the entire work.


Which is very wise, the history channel is 90% dreck IMHO

Keith



Ogden Johnson III October 10th 03 05:50 PM

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

"Brian J. McCann" wrote in message


A couple of night ago the History Channel aired a program about the
F-14. During the promo it was stated that the Tomcat is the world's
fastest fighter. I dunno, every aviation book in my house puts it
clearly behind the F-15 and the MiG 25.

Also, the program stated that the Shah of Iran ordered a fly-off
between the F-14 and the F-15 in order to decide which one he was
gonna buy. But when the narrator was talking about the Eagle, they
showed footage of what was clearly an F-5.

So, what's going on here? Am I wrong, is the Tomcat actually faster
than the Eagle. And what's up with the F-5 footage? Did the US offer
the Shah F-5s or F-15s? Did the documentary show the wrong footage,
or did the narrator misread the copy, or was he given the wrong copy?
When I get confusing information from a documentary it makes me doubt
the validity of the entire work.


Which is very wise, the history channel is 90% dreck IMHO


To paraphrase [and bowdlerize] Theodore Sturgeon's famous quote from
the '50's, "90% of *everything* is dreck." It is the belief of many
that that number goes up to Ivory soap ranges [99 and 44/100ths
percent] when the subject under immediate discussion is television
programs, whether broadcast or cable network.
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

JD October 10th 03 06:50 PM

Actually if you were to compare the F14 with the F110 engines to the
F15, the acceleration at SL would be even from M0.5 to M0.9. This is
with the F14 wings set to "Auto". If the F14 wings were set to manual
and the wings set fully aft, the F14 would be a lot faster.

With a F14 with the TF30 engines, SL accleration at the same Mach,
would be a second slower than the F110.

The main advantange of the F14 is that can change its flight profile
or in this case, drag profile. Parasitic drag at 68 deg vs 45 deg
(F15) would be lower in the former. So with the said, going over
speeds over the Mach, the F14B/D will reach the goal quicker by
several seconds.

During the F14 v F15 fly off, I recall reading that the F14 camp let
the fuel burn fast as they were at a high idle (To increase the T:W)
while the F15's demo was in progress and that the F14 pilots took
account for the weather (wind) before their time was next. What this
knowledge was used for was the slow fly by in which it looked like the
aircraft was at a standstill since the aircraft was flying at 95KIAS
"dirty" as flew into the wind. During their demonstration, they hit
8Gs at in the mid 300kias range and performed touch and go's and
accelerated into the vertical. Their demonstration also showed that
the F14A took off and landed in a shorter distance than the F15.


Julian

Elmshoot October 10th 03 11:11 PM

A couple of night ago the History Channel aired a program about the
F-14. During the promo it was stated that the Tomcat is the world's
fastest fighter. I dunno, every aviation book in my house puts it
clearly behind the F-15 and the MiG 25.


Brian,
I started Discovery wings about 1 year agao and the biggest disapointment was
all of the inacuracies they had in the programs. An F-5 isn't suprising, radial
engine sounds with a turdo prop taking off the wrong jet sounds for the A/C
pictured. The toper was the narator saying it took Lindy 17 hours to fly to
Paris from NY. Now when we watch it's a game to pick out the crap in the story.
I wonder how much is in the stores I don't anything about. The B-58 program I
liked but the creditability is always suspect.
The A-6 progam it is mentioned none had ever been shot down by another plane. I
understand that when VA-196 lost 4 planes on the raid up north they were jumped
by Migs and at least one was bagged in China while trying to avoid the air
threat.
It also mention they have no A/A capability I have many hours flying on
deploymemt carring an AIM-9N. That is more then the other bomber the AF refers
to the Stealth Fighter.
Sparky

Andrew Toppan October 11th 03 12:04 AM

On 9 Oct 2003 22:17:57 -0700, (Brian J. McCann) wrote:

Did anyone else see the program, or can anyone give me some clear and
unimpeachable facts?


The program appears to be utter BS. The promo also said something about the
F-14 shooting down aircraft from 200 miles away, which is beyond silly.

--
Andrew Toppan ---
--- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more -
http://www.hazegray.org/


Guy Alcala October 11th 03 10:25 PM

Ogden Johnson III wrote:

To paraphrase [and bowdlerize] Theodore Sturgeon's famous quote from
the '50's, "90% of *everything* is dreck."


He seems to have used "crud", which has been almost universally modified into
"crap," so you're really not bowdlerizing _him_. Whatever word you use, the
essential truth of his 'law' remains unassailable.

Guy





Ogden Johnson III October 12th 03 05:58 PM

Guy Alcala wrote:

Ogden Johnson III wrote:


To paraphrase [and bowdlerize] Theodore Sturgeon's famous quote from
the '50's, "90% of *everything* is dreck."


He seems to have used "crud", which has been almost universally modified into
"crap," so you're really not bowdlerizing _him_. Whatever word you use, the
essential truth of his 'law' remains unassailable.


I had always understood that the word he used was the one most
commonly used for excrement in impolite company.
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

Pechs1 November 3rd 03 02:34 PM

bjm- A couple of night ago the History Channel aired a program about the
F-14. During the promo it was stated that the Tomcat is the world's
fastest fighter. I dunno, every aviation book in my house puts it
clearly behind the F-15 and the MiG 25. BRBR

Must've been written by Grumman...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Pechs1 November 3rd 03 02:37 PM

JD- Actually if you were to compare the F14 with the F110 engines to the
F15, the acceleration at SL would be even from M0.5 to M0.9. This is
with the F14 wings set to "Auto". If the F14 wings were set to manual
and the wings set fully aft, the F14 would be a lot faster. BRBR

'A lot'??-manual aft, airsource off type acceleration?


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer


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