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-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

Ian MacLure July 11th 04 08:51 PM

(WalterM140) wrote in

Note also that your notion of what OCS involved isn't even close.

I garduated from Marine Corps OCS in 1981.

Pity you didn't pay attention to spelling in public school.

Anyhoo, last time I looked the Marine Corps was the property
of the Navy.
And as I'm sure you've been told at least once in your sorry

A right way.
A wrong way
And-uh, an [Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine Corps/Coast Guard]
Ed Rasimus is in a position to comment authoritatively on
how the USAF did things and gosh darn it during the period
in question to boot. Ed would know. You, on the other hand
would not. As if that were not already abundantly clear.


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BUFDRVR July 11th 04 08:54 PM

Dan wrote:

If going into actual combat is all that makes a man respectable then it's
to assume you don't respect your ground crew and all the men who put you in a
servicable airplane. Someone had to be cooks, clerical staff, truck

Have not read Art's stuff before? He doesn't respect the service of the above
mentioned personnel.


"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

D. Strang July 11th 04 08:58 PM

"Steve Mellenthin" wrote

I get the feeling somehow that our friend JFkerry wasn't as committed to
service as he was to self. Sorta seems as if he couldn't wait to get back to
the States to campaign and help out his little friend Janie.

It's telling that a soldier like Senator Dole quit the senate to run for President,
and JFKerry who is keeping a backup plan. His attendance record is really
hurting his state, but it is another form of self-service.

D. Strang July 11th 04 09:02 PM

"Ian MacLure" wrote
(WalterM140) wrote
Whence he graduated in circa 1970.
And the draft ended when exactly? Hmmm?

Edwards in 51 YO. That would put him in the 1971 HS class. The draft
ended in 1972.

So explain how he graduated from a 4 yr college in 1974.
Did he have a time machine?

Summer School? CLEP?

B2431 July 11th 04 09:08 PM

From: Cub Driver


The laugh line among junior officers in Vietnam in 1964 was: "It's a
lousy war, but it's the only war we've got!"

That line has also been used in movies. I am willing to bet it probably goes
back to the invention of the rock. I wonder when the "shell fragment removed
from eye" gag first came out.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

B2431 July 11th 04 09:20 PM

From: (WalterM140)
Date: 7/11/2004 11:14 AM Central Daylight Time

Whence he graduated in circa 1970.
And the draft ended when exactly? Hmmm?

Edwards in 51 YO. That would put him in the 1971 HS class. The draft ended


It ended in 1973.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Bill Shatzer July 12th 04 12:34 AM

Ed Rasimus ) writes:


And, you really might want to look up the duration of Mr. Gore's
overseas assignment.

Everything I've seen sez it was early January, '71 through late
May, '71 with a scheduled discharge date of August 5, '71.

You have information to the contrary?

Here's a quote: "When they finally came, he would spend less than
five months in Vietnam, arriving on Jan. 8, 1971, to write newspaper
and magazine articles. He was discharged on May 24, 1971." (The
Washington Times National Weekly Edition Nov. 28 - Dec. 4, 1994)

I said Gore spent 151 days of a year tour. You replied that he only
got a two-month curtailment. The difference would be 151 days
(Jan-May???) versus 10 months x 30 days or 300 days. I think the
Washington Times dates, my statement, and your "Everything I've seen
sez" all indicate that your asssertion of a two month curtailment was
incorrect. So, we have information to the contrary.

I'm really trying to understand your point, Ed, and I'm apparently
missing it completely. Gore had, at most, a seven month tour.

Gove's enlistment was up on August 5, 1971. As I don't think they
were doing "stop-loses" in that era and certainly not for folks
with journalist MOSs, Gove was NOT going to be in VN after
early August in any event.

If he was discharged May 24, he served in VN two months and 12
days less than the maximum he might have served there.

As to why he didn't arrive in VN until January 8, that would seem
a differnet question but one which seems largely irrelevant.

There seems little dispute that he in fact -did- volunteer
for assignment to VN. It was certainly not unknown for the
Army bureaucracy to take its own sweet time between the receipt
of a re-assignment request and the time the orders were actually



"Cave ab homine unius libri"

Bill Shatzer July 12th 04 12:48 AM

Ian MacLure ) writes:
(WalterM140) wrote in

Whence he graduated in circa 1970.
And the draft ended when exactly? Hmmm?

Edwards in 51 YO. That would put him in the 1971 HS class. The draft
ended in 1972.

So explain how he graduated from a 4 yr college in 1974.
Did he have a time machine?

Not a trick - I entered Oregon State in the summer of '67 and
graduated in May '70.

Attend summer school and take one extra class a term and you've
more than enough credits to graduate in 3 years - or even less.

Not saying Edwards did that, but it was certainly possible.



"Cave ab homine unius libri"

B2431 July 12th 04 12:51 AM

From: (WalterM140)
Date: 7/11/2004 10:50 AM Central Daylight Time

Ask yourself this question: how would you feel if your crew got to
go home after 3 months overseas, and you had to stay for duration
plus six months? Would you say "they went to war" as excited as
you are about JFKerry?

Always wondered about that early departure. Can anyone explain?

Anyone wounded three times could opt out.

It occurs to me that this is what the protagonist in "Platoon" does also.


Mein Gott, herr Goebels, we can cite fictional movies to bolster our argument!

This puts you in the same category as teuton and denyav.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Steven P. McNicoll July 12th 04 02:01 AM

"Bill Shatzer" wrote in message

I had thought that was exactly the problem with the F-102;
that it was NOT area ruled.

The YF-102 was not area ruled, the YF-102A and later models were.

My quick and dirty reference (the one which most readily
falls to hand) indicates that the F-102 had a max speed
of 825 mph with a J57-P engine,

The F-106 is listed with a max speed of 1,530 mph with the
the same J57-P engine.

Something has to be going on there with the aerodynamics to
account for an 85% increase in speed with essentially the
same engine producing essentially the same thrust.

They didn't use the same engine, the F-106 used the J75-P-17.

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