AviationBanter

AviationBanter (http://www.aviationbanter.com/index.php)
-   Military Aviation (http://www.aviationbanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

Ian MacLure July 11th 04 05:42 AM

(ArtKramr) wrote in
:


A lot more dangerous over enemy territory than over Texas. Believe
me. I have flown over both.


Of course, but (and as a B26 crew member you ought to appreciate
this) flying high performance aircraft carries risks in and of
itself. Certainly higher risk than flying a typewriter in a
rear area for 90 days.

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source


Bill Shatzer July 11th 04 05:44 AM

Jim Thomas ) writes:
George Shirley wrote in message news:
Most grunts referred to officers "advancing their careers" by serving a
tour or part of a tour as "getting their ticket punched." Had to get a
least some combat time for advancement. Many officers were there because
that was the only war we had at the time and war means promotions,
officer or enlisted lifer.


And why is this a bad thing?


'Cause it played havoc with unit morale and combat effectiveness.

To provide a maximum number of "ticket punches", most officers
spent only six months or less with the combat battlions - the
rest of their tours were spent as laundry and morale office at
some rear echelon headquarters unit.

Just about the time an officer was really learning to get good at
his job, he'd be rotated out and a new inexperienced "ticket puncher"
would be assigned in his place. To repeat the learning curve.

I'd venture to say that most of the
officers who volunteered to serve in SEA did so, not to save the USA
from the Communist hordes, but because it was, indeed, "the only war
we had"; going to war, if required, was what we all signed to do; and
yes, anyone who expected to make a career as a warrior needed to prove
that he could be one. If this is "ticket punching", then I'm guilty.


I don't denigrate the "ticket punchers" - especially the captains and
looies. Their motives were generally honorable and their intentions
good.

But the system was dumb and undoubtably resulted in some good
people getting killed who didn't have to be.

And that's a heavy price to pay for the sake of increasing the number
of tickets punched.

--


"Cave ab homine unius libri"

Jack July 11th 04 05:49 AM

Hey, I DEROS'd 10 days early: maybe I should run for President.


--
Jack

"Cave ab homine unius libri"

Fred the Red Shirt July 11th 04 05:49 AM

"ian maclure" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 10:53:48 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really?


Compared to flying F-105's to Route Package Six, they were very safe when
compared to flying an F-102 over Houston.


Non-responsive.

Absent the folks shooting at you and the fact that Air Intercept
is usually a regime thats less hazardous inherently than moving
mud, both are equally hazardous.


IOW, if you don't consider the factors that make one more hazardous,
they are equally hazaradous? Or are you just saying that any risk
differential was largely independent of the type of aircraft being
flown?

One should probably also factor in quality of maitenance domestically
vs in theater.

Didn't the 102 have the downward firing ejection seat that
made low-level ejections, er, problematic?

--

FF

Ian MacLure July 11th 04 05:51 AM

nt (Krztalizer) wrote in
:

And things like "Route Package Six" were part of the problem in
Vietnam. Why fergawdsake, set up predictable in/out routes for
raids. Apparently this is what happened for a long time.
Meant the NVA could set up their SAMs and AAA along those routes
and concentrate their fire.


Mosquito bombers en route to Berlin in 44-45 had set approach routes,
well known to aircrews and flak gunners alike. The three routes were
so well travelled that even the Jerries referred to approaching bogies
as "stranger on (train) Platform 3". Anti-Mosquito units were
deliberately stationed on top of the three arriving "railroad"
routes...

Glad to see we learned from that little mistake...


A friend of mine did two tours in A4s in Vietnam. Mention that
particular idiocy to him and steam starts pouring out his ears.
Anybody know what the dumbasses who thought that one up were
thinking. Was it an effort to deconflict or just plain stupidity
at high elevels. Even worse was it the politicians trying to run the
war at a tactical level?

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source


Ian MacLure July 11th 04 05:55 AM

(WalterM140) wrote in
:

Ya know I really don't know what all the fuss was about here. I
graduated from
college in 1968 in Arizona.


Did you go to Officer Candidates School?

Bush 43 did not.


So?
Was OCS the only route to a commission?

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source


D. Strang July 11th 04 06:02 AM

"Bill Shatzer" wrote

But the system was dumb and undoubtably resulted in some good
people getting killed who didn't have to be.


Most of the men killed in my platoons died because they failed
basic military skills. Every time we went out, someone would trip
over a booby trap and kill the two guys behind him that were
bunched-up. It never had anything to do with the REMF's.

I never once lacked any supply I requested. The logistics troops
were always giving us what we wanted, and the air support and
artillery were instantaneous. We almost never had to carry dead
troops out of the field. We stacked them up, and a helo came in
and took them away. We had guys who just refused to wear a
flak jacket. Nothing I could threaten them with would convince
them I was right. Most of them got stacked. **** em.



D. Strang July 11th 04 06:04 AM

Can you imitate Thurston Howell III?

"Jack" wrote

Hey, I DEROS'd 10 days early: maybe I should run for President.




Ian MacLure July 11th 04 06:39 AM

(WalterM140) wrote in
:

Ya know I really don't know what all the fuss was about here.


Bush skipped out on the last two years of his commitment. That's one
problem.


So you claim.
Got any hard evidence of this?
No?
Then belt up!

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source


Ian MacLure July 11th 04 06:41 AM

"D. Strang" wrote in
news:[email protected]:

[snip]

JFKerry skipped out of his last 8 months in the war zone (after
receiving three scratches in the line of duty).


One of which ( it is alleged ) he got by playing the asshole
with explosive ordnance.

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
AviationBanter.com