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-   -   Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9357)

Ron June 10th 04 03:18 AM

Just last month in Nashville, I met with seven hundred combat aviators
from that conflict who wouldn't urinate on Kerry if he were aflame.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Well is drinking Turpentine first allowed?


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
Silver City Tanker Base


WalterM140 June 10th 04 09:21 AM

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time
ago. The real question is how much influence was exerted by his father
the Congressman to get it issued.


Well, since his father wasn't a Congressman at the time, the answer has to
be, "None".


Bush was released after 5 years, 4 months and five days of a six year
commitment.

If he didn't get special favor, how did that happen?

Walt

Cub Driver June 10th 04 10:15 AM


The facts do. Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.


This proves what? People have come forward saying they saw him there. If it
were me I wouldn't accept the money.


Nobody gets to COLLECT the money. Trudeau was giving it to a charity
of his choice.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum
www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

WalterM140 June 10th 04 11:10 AM

Did you also know that Mr. Kerry also stupidly and recklessly risked his men
and warship to win the medals?


Here's the narrative portion of Kerry's fitrep:

"In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action LTJG
(Lieutenant Junior Grade) Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics
and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every
opportunity. On one occasion while in tactical command of a three boat
operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly
assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush.
This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several enemy KIAs.

LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing
and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the
Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training
programs.

During this period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star
medal, the Bronze Star medal, the Purple Heart medal (2nd and 3rd awards).

18 Dec 1969"

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp



Walt

WalterM140 June 10th 04 11:11 AM

Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.


At least one did.


Trudeau donated the money to the USO.

Walt

WalterM140 June 10th 04 11:12 AM

Ah yes, the "vast right wing conspiracy."

Yes.

"Donald H. Segretti (born September 17, 1941) was a political operative for the
Nixon White House during the 1970s. Segretti ran a campaign of dirty tricks
against the Democrats. His actions were part of the larger Watergate Scandal.

He went to prison in 1974 after pleading guilty to three misdemeanor counts of
distributing illegal campaign literature. A major part of this was a faked
letter on Edmund Muskie's letterhead falsely alleging that senator Henry
"Scoop" Jackson had had an illegitimate child with a 17-year-old.

Segretti was a lawyer — initially a prosecutor for the military and later as
a civilian. However, his license was suspended for two years following his
conviction. In 1995, he briefly ran for a local judgeship in Orange County,
California. He withdrew from the race shortly after his campign received
publicity, which awakened lingering anger over his involvement in the scandal."


--wikipdeia

"It's no accident that Karl Rove was one of Richard Nixon's moles. Using
techniques developed by his first mentor, dirty-tricks strategist Donald
Segretti, Rove infiltrated Democratic organizations on behalf of Nixon's
infamous 1972 campaign. Rove's formidable talents came to the attention of
George Bush Senior, then incoming Republican National Committee chairman, and
the rest is history. Seven presidential campaigns later, Rove masterminded a
deluge of disinformation against John McCain, whose upset victory in New
Hampshire had given him a shot at the Republican nomination. Word was spread
among South Carolina voters that McCain had fathered a black daughter out of
wedlock (McCain had, in fact, adopted a Bangladeshi girl), that McCain was a
homosexual, that McCain's wife had a drug problem and so on.

Now Rove is masterminding the Bush administration's press strategy, but it's
far more than a press strategy. It's the central strategy for how the public
understands what George W. Bush is doing to and for America. In an important
sense, it is the Bush presidency. Rove's methodology largely explains why
Bush's popularity remains strong despite the unremittingly awful economy
(mounting job losses, weak profits and a three-year stock-market slide) and
despite the shambles of the administration's foreign policy (Osama bin Laden
still at large, al-Qaeda as dangerous as ever, North Korea more menacing than
ever, Israelis and Palestinians as far away from the bargaining table as ever,
anti-Americanism rising across the globe and a pending war in Iraq lacking
clear justification)."

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/2/reich-r.html

People should be very skeptical of anyone coming forward -now- to support a 30
year old story that the contemporary records do not support.

Walt


WalterM140 June 10th 04 11:14 AM

Nobody gets to COLLECT the money. Trudeau was giving it to a charity
of his choice.


You wouldn't donate $10,000 to the USO if all you had to do was contact Gary
Trudeau with a valid story?

Walt



B2431 June 10th 04 11:16 AM

From: (WalterM140)
Date: 6/10/2004 3:21 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time
ago. The real question is how much influence was exerted by his father
the Congressman to get it issued.


Well, since his father wasn't a Congressman at the time, the answer has to
be, "None".


Bush was released after 5 years, 4 months and five days of a six year
commitment.

If he didn't get special favor, how did that happen?

Walt


Many people get early outs for various reasons with no political pull. It
happens all the tim. Kerry was let out early to go to school. At the time I
retired in 1994 it could still be done. Ok, so it's a special favour and one
has to apply for it, but what's the big deal? It does happen.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


WalterM140 June 10th 04 11:17 AM

Here is a link to where Bush was counseled that failure to perform
adequately
in the Guard could result in involuntary call to active duty.

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc23.gif

Walt



Firstly that document is incomplete. Secondly nowhere does it sound like a
LOC.
I have written my share of LOCs and the tenor is "you are" not "I am."
Thirdly officers are not enlistees.



Bush did enlist in the Guard. Per the link that someone provided, he did six
weeks of basic.

Actually, the link I provided sounds like to sort of boilerplate CYA language
that every enlistee would sign. Upon reflection, there's no stigma in
signing it, eveyone would sign such a document. Then you couldn't whine that
no one ever told you you could be forced onto involuntary active duty.

As a WAG I'd say that looks more like a letter one would have to sign prior
to
entering the Guard.


You're right.

Walt

George Z. Bush June 10th 04 12:34 PM

WalterM140 wrote:
"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time
ago. The real question is how much influence was exerted by his father
the Congressman to get it issued.


Well, since his father wasn't a Congressman at the time, the answer has to
be, "None".


Even if he wasn't, that doesn't mean that he threw away the phone numbers of all
those people he had influence with when he was in office. That kind of people
would still be susceptible to a bit of informal or indirect pressure.....after
all, none of them could be sure that an out-of-office congressman might not run
for Senator or President some day, and it's always good to have some markers out
for past favors given, isn't it.

Although he was no longer a congressman in 1973, would you care to guess what
position of political influence he occupied at that time? Would you believe
"Chairman of the Republican National Committee"? Do you still think nobody
would listen when he called?

You may think the answer is "none" but politcally less-naive folks would
probably welcome the opportunity to argue the point with you. Alas, the world
of politics is not filled with Boy Scouts.

George Z.




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