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Carlos Estopier April 30th 04 05:26 PM

I want to start
 
Hello:

I always had the goal and the illusion of flying on my own, now I have
the means to do it... so I have three questions:

a) What will be the best choice of airplane, for a firt timmer like
myself, considering, price range, flying range and easiness to learn
and fly?

b) Used or new?

c) I also would like to take with me around 6pax with me

I live in Mexico City, but my plan is to get all the instruction in
the US (Tx, Fl), buy there and bring the aircraft later on to Mexico.

Thank you in advance

Carlos
+52+55+5553-1928

Jay Honeck April 30th 04 07:24 PM

c) I also would like to take with me around 6pax with me

I don't know of a single engine plane that will do this, short of a Cessna
208 Caravan?

Since they run something around a million bucks a copy, you might want to
scale this goal back a bit!

If you can get by only carrying five passengers, look for a Piper Cherokee
Six.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



TripFarmer April 30th 04 07:39 PM

Are there now any restrictions with foreigners taking pilot lessons in the US?



In article , says...

Hello:

I always had the goal and the illusion of flying on my own, now I have
the means to do it... so I have three questions:

a) What will be the best choice of airplane, for a firt timmer like
myself, considering, price range, flying range and easiness to learn
and fly?

b) Used or new?

c) I also would like to take with me around 6pax with me

I live in Mexico City, but my plan is to get all the instruction in
the US (Tx, Fl), buy there and bring the aircraft later on to Mexico.

Thank you in advance

Carlos
+52+55+5553-1928



G.R. Patterson III May 1st 04 01:59 AM



TripFarmer wrote:

Are there now any restrictions with foreigners taking pilot lessons in the US?


Student visa is required for Europeans. Dunno if that's the case with fellow
Americans.
George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

Ray Andraka May 1st 04 03:43 AM

You can get a Cherokee Six with a seventh seat (mine has it). If the six
passengers include children, this is a workable seating arrangement. If all
adults, they'd better be petite and on very friendly terms. The seventh seat
is a filler about 10 inches wide that goes between the seats in the middle row
so that the middle row seats three across. The cabin is 49 inches wide, which
means a scant 16" per person. AFAIK, the seventh seat is only available with
the forward facing seats. I'm not aware of any other piston singles that can
seat more than six with the exception of an Antonov AN-2, which is a huge
soviet biplane with a big radial engine. Also, as a freshly minted pilot,
you'll probably find the insurance for something with more than six seats to
be prohibitive.

Jay Honeck wrote:

c) I also would like to take with me around 6pax with me


I don't know of a single engine plane that will do this, short of a Cessna
208 Caravan?

Since they run something around a million bucks a copy, you might want to
scale this goal back a bit!

If you can get by only carrying five passengers, look for a Piper Cherokee
Six.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759



sami May 1st 04 06:47 AM

Used Cessna T206,for high alt, short rwy. if you are a mx citizen,get
your PPL.In MEX. if you are U.S then go to TX,or FL.if you find a plane
I can help you fly to MX. I hold U.S ppl. as well as a mexican PPL.

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Carlos Estopier May 1st 04 05:10 PM

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:[email protected]_s52...
c) I also would like to take with me around 6pax with me


I don't know of a single engine plane that will do this, short of a Cessna
208 Caravan?

Since they run something around a million bucks a copy, you might want to
scale this goal back a bit!


Ok ..... I got the point, my budget is about 400,000 .... so I will have
to settle for something else, and yes definitly I will have all the
instruction in Mexico and later on in the US, so I can fly between the
two country.

I have seen so many different options and my favorite is the Cirrus, it
has a solid range and performance .... any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Carlos

Carlos Estopier May 1st 04 05:16 PM

sami wrote in message ...
Used Cessna T206,for high alt, short rwy. if you are a mx citizen,get
your PPL.In MEX. if you are U.S then go to TX,or FL.if you find a plane
I can help you fly to MX. I hold U.S ppl. as well as a mexican PPL.

*** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.


Thanks, do you know how much and how long does it takes to obtain
the ppl in the US, and in Mexico, my first choice is a Cirrus (any
thoughts?).

Thanks in advance,

Carlos

Dave S May 1st 04 06:30 PM

How about you learn to fly first in a rented plane, THEN go buy something..

I have heard of too many instances where someone buys more plane than
they can handle.. and end up selling it in disgust. Its NOT like owning
a car.

Dave

Carlos Estopier wrote:
sami wrote in message ...

Used Cessna T206,for high alt, short rwy. if you are a mx citizen,get
your PPL.In MEX. if you are U.S then go to TX,or FL.if you find a plane
I can help you fly to MX. I hold U.S ppl. as well as a mexican PPL.

*** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.



Thanks, do you know how much and how long does it takes to obtain
the ppl in the US, and in Mexico, my first choice is a Cirrus (any
thoughts?).

Thanks in advance,

Carlos



Jürgen Exner May 2nd 04 05:06 PM

Carlos Estopier wrote:
I always had the goal and the illusion of flying on my own, now I have
the means to do it... so I have three questions:

a) What will be the best choice of airplane, for a firt timmer like
myself, considering, price range, flying range and easiness to learn
and fly?


I would reverse the sequence: first get your PP licence, then buy a plane.
Then you don't waste a lot of money in case something turns up during your
training that makes you change your mind.

jue



Dude May 4th 04 05:38 AM

Carlos,

If you want to buy a plane to train in, you have to realize that you
probablly should not start with a Cirrus or anything with six seats.

I recommend you at least take enough lessons to ensure that the reality of
flying small planes does not dampen your enthusiasm.

If you then decide you want to buy a plane to train in, you can go a few
routes.

You can go new or used, and you can go with the manufacturer that you plan
to step up to or not.

New is cool if you can afford it. Used will save you cash up front as well
as it will depreciate less in the short time before you step up. If you
want to go new, I recommend at least buying a plane from the manufacturer
you plan to step up to. Piper has a good step up plan, and some
dealers/brokers will work a step up plan in other makes.

If you really want six seats, Cirrus is out. You can get a six seat piper
or cessna as a reasonable second plane. If you plan to be crossing water,
you will want to work up to a turbine or twin and that will take a while.

Here are some example paths in the following format.

Up to 100 hours, Up to 200 hours and IFR, When appropriate (could be a
while, or you are hiring a pilot to go with you, talk to some instructors
and insurance folks).

Cessna 172, Cessna 210/206 (maybe you should have even more hours), Cessna
Caravan or 400 series.

Piper Cherokee (140, warrior, archer), Cherokee six, Piper Seneca or
Meridian.

Diamond DA20 or DA40, DA42 (150 hours), DJet (800 to 1000?).

The Diamond would also be the place to start to work up to Cirrus or Lancair
or Mooney (thought the Mooney is more like a piper in many ways, it lands
much like the Diamonds.

If you are going towards Beech, you could get an older Beech fixed gear to
start, or go with Piper.

Now that I have said all this, you can actually buy whatever suits you and
move up any way you want. If you are really in a hurry though, there is
value in staying within a family.

As for training, I would recommend US training with Mexico familiarization
afterwards. Also, there seems to be enough people coming across the border
to buy, but I do not know why. Cessna dealers do not like to sell to
Mexicans who plan to take the plane back. So don't tell them you plan to do
that.








"Carlos Estopier" wrote in message
m...
Hello:

I always had the goal and the illusion of flying on my own, now I have
the means to do it... so I have three questions:

a) What will be the best choice of airplane, for a firt timmer like
myself, considering, price range, flying range and easiness to learn
and fly?

b) Used or new?

c) I also would like to take with me around 6pax with me

I live in Mexico City, but my plan is to get all the instruction in
the US (Tx, Fl), buy there and bring the aircraft later on to Mexico.

Thank you in advance

Carlos
+52+55+5553-1928




Walt Beaulieu May 4th 04 01:27 PM

I sort of did the same thing. At 0 Hours, I bought into a 5 way
partnership in a Cherokee 180. Cost was $6000 up front. Then we split
everything else but the Gas and a small engine fund. I remember
getting frustrated at one point and wishing I did not have the plane
during my training. Owning a part of a plane though is one hell of a
motivator to complete the training. 800 hours later, I'm glad I stuck
it out. Having understanding partners is good too because you have
someone experienced helping you look after the plane. My piece of the
insurance was a few hundred dollars higher but over all this was the
least expensive way to get a license I could find. If you go this
route, It goes without saying that the plane is insignificant compared
to picking your partners. Wrong partners = hell. Right partners =
Great Fun and tons o' saving.
Interesting though, having a student as a partner now would give me
the willies a bit but since someone cut me some slack, Someday I may
need to pay back the favor.

Walt



Mike Spera wrote in message ...
Which comes first, the plane or the license? We chose to buy the plane
to train in. Since there were two of us (wife and myself), the cost
appeared justified. Also, availability of planes at the local school was
spotty and we were not impressed with the condition/appearance of
rentals in general. 3 sessions each per week would have racked up about
$11,000 in rentals for the year of basic training vs. about $2700 for
gas in our plane. We did have all the fixed expenses to pay, like
insurance, the note, maintenance, etc. But we still believed it was a
good deal.


SNIP

Dave Butler May 4th 04 01:51 PM

Walt Beaulieu wrote:

least expensive way to get a license I could find. If you go this
route, It goes without saying that the plane is insignificant compared
to picking your partners. Wrong partners = hell. Right partners =
Great Fun and tons o' saving.


Man, that is so true. It can't be emphasized enough. Make sure your partners
share your vision about how the airplane is to be used. It may seem like a great
deal because "...your partners don't fly very much". That can also mean that
they're not interested in maintaining the aircraft to the same standards as
someone (you) who flies a lot.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.


Carlos Estopier May 5th 04 04:52 PM

Thank you all in helping me on this issue, yes I do have a great
partner and he will not fly as much as I intend to, the maintenance
cost and interest will be guaranteed on both parties.

What we have so far decided is, we will buy a used plane (2 or 3
years), refurbished completely, in the meantime we will start the
lessons for the PPL, so when the plane is ready to fly we can start
the practice on it, we will let go the Cirrus, because here in Mexico
there is not a dealership of it, so it will be a Piper, a Beach or a
Cessna.

So thank you again for your different point of views.

Carlos

Walt Beaulieu wrote:

least expensive way to get a license I could find. If you go this
route, It goes without saying that the plane is insignificant compared
to picking your partners. Wrong partners = hell. Right partners =
Great Fun and tons o' saving.


Man, that is so true. It can't be emphasized enough. Make sure your partners
share your vision about how the airplane is to be used. It may seem like a great
deal because "...your partners don't fly very much". That can also mean that
they're not interested in maintaining the aircraft to the same standards as
someone (you) who flies a lot.


Fred Collins May 10th 04 01:25 AM

I have no experience in Mexico specifically, so there may be issues
with which I am unfamiliar, but in general:

1.Start out in a J-3, Super Cub, Citabria or similar if at all
possible. Even Air Force UPT grads who started in Tweets develop
issues that people who start out in a real trainer don't.

2. If you can afford it get a good instrument simulator , after you
are a VFR pilot, and spend a lot of time with it. They have come down
in price since the ridiculous old ATC 610.

3. U.S. ideas of how to do things in the warped little fish pond
known as general aviation in the US are insurance-driven. Since you
are presumably a Mexican national going to be owning a XE-registered
airplane, your situation will (may?) differ radically, so don't get
caught up on our insurability if you are going to be self-insured or
purchasing insurance under what may be wholly different rules. You can
afford to put safety ahead of insurability in that case!

4. Ditto the regulations. I have no idea of what regs south of the
border are but I know there are differences which may work in your
favor.

flyboy May 11th 04 04:49 PM

BUY A CESSNA 172 OR CITABRIA FOR TRAINING THEN STEP UP TO A 210 OR
206.YOU WANT A HIGH WING AIRPLANE ALWAYS.NOT A SISSY LOW WING PLANE.

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Fred Collins May 12th 04 07:09 PM

flyboy sflyborataol wrote in message ...
BUY A CESSNA 172 OR CITABRIA FOR TRAINING THEN STEP UP TO A 210 OR
206.YOU WANT A HIGH WING AIRPLANE ALWAYS.NOT A SISSY LOW WING PLANE.



Boy, I'm glad you set me right on this. All those sissy low wing
airplanes I got to fly in the early 80s when you could still do it
without buying one-the T-6, T-28, and T-33-did me no good at all. It
took that macho Reed STC'd J-3 and a friend's Pietenpol to make a
pilot out of me. How could I forget? And that Stearman-let's see, it
had a low and a high wing....

Seriously, it doesn't make any difference. Being able to spin does.
Maybe in Mexico they still have to spin students?


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