AviationBanter

AviationBanter (http://www.aviationbanter.com/index.php)
-   Military Aviation (http://www.aviationbanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam (http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=9683)

Cub Driver July 9th 04 10:42 AM


What is your opinion of someone who gets a pilot slot in the guard, as opposed
to someone who enters active duty infantry or naval forces, in the present day.


Smart man!

(This comes from one who went through infantry basic at Fort Dix.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum
www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

WalterM140 July 9th 04 11:53 AM

I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really?


Compared to flying F-105's to Route Package Six, they were very safe when
compared to flying an F-102 over Houston.

Walt

ArtKramr July 9th 04 03:07 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: (WalterM140)
Date: 7/9/2004 3:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really?


Compared to flying F-105's to Route Package Six, they were very safe when
compared to flying an F-102 over Houston.

Walt


There was no flak over Houston. Well hardly any. ((:-))



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


ArtKramr July 9th 04 03:13 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: Cub Driver
Date: 7/9/2004 2:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really?


As Ed Rasimus has said: "Every time you kick the tires and light the
fire in a single-engine, single-seat Century Series jet, it can kill
you--all by itself without help from an enemy."



Yeah right. It's the kicking the tires that will get you every time.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Smartace11 July 9th 04 03:34 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 7/9/2004 10:13 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: Cub Driver

Date: 7/9/2004 2:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really?


As Ed Rasimus has said: "Every time you kick the tires and light the
fire in a single-engine, single-seat Century Series jet, it can kill
you--all by itself without help from an enemy."


Ya know I really don't know what all the fuss was about here. I graduated from
college in 1968 in Arizona. I had always wanted to fly jets so from time to
time I applied for the AF Reserves and ANG prior to graduation and once they
found I was physically and mentally qualified to go to flight school, as well
as an engineer, I was informed they all had immediate vacancies. Ultimately I
went through AFROTC and went on to learn how to fly. Probably 5% or so of my
graduating class were ANG or AFR - I ended up taking an F-4. Slots coming down
to graduates included ADC F101s among other non SEA assignments. I had and
have no political pull whatever and I could have just as easily taken an
ANG/AFR slot prior to my college graduation so I don't feel Bush hard to try
very hard to get an F-102.

Even after I finished F-4 in 69 school several of us in my class ended up in
northern Japan instead of SEA including one guy who later became a backseat ace
after getting a SEA tour in 1972..

So please stop reading more into this than there probably was. Don't just
assume that because the guy got an ANG fighter slot and ddn't go to SEA, he
only did so because of his connections. Others were in the same boat through
no choice of their own.

Ron July 9th 04 03:37 PM

Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 7/9/2004 1:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:


A lot more dangerous over enemy territory than over Texas. Believe me. I
have
flown over both.


What is your opinion of someone who gets a pilot slot in the guard, as
opposed
to someone who enters active duty infantry or naval forces, in the present
day.




Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India


I'm too much of a coward for the infantry. I'd rather take my chances in the
flak over Germany.




I was just wondering if you would still have the same disdain for someone who
does it now


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India


ian maclure July 10th 04 01:27 AM

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 10:53:48 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really?


Compared to flying F-105's to Route Package Six, they were very safe when
compared to flying an F-102 over Houston.


Non-responsive.

Absent the folks shooting at you and the fact that Air Intercept
is usually a regime thats less hazardous inherently than moving
mud, both are equally hazardous.

High powered jets will kill you for any number of seemingly
minor lapses in concentration, judgement, or luck.

And things like "Route Package Six" were part of the problem in
Vietnam. Why fergawdsake, set up predictable in/out routes for
raids. Apparently this is what happened for a long time.
Meant the NVA could set up their SAMs and AAA along those routes
and concentrate their fire.

IBM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source


Krztalizer July 10th 04 01:46 AM

And things like "Route Package Six" were part of the problem in
Vietnam. Why fergawdsake, set up predictable in/out routes for
raids. Apparently this is what happened for a long time.
Meant the NVA could set up their SAMs and AAA along those routes
and concentrate their fire.


Mosquito bombers en route to Berlin in 44-45 had set approach routes, well
known to aircrews and flak gunners alike. The three routes were so well
travelled that even the Jerries referred to approaching bogies as "stranger on
(train) Platform 3". Anti-Mosquito units were deliberately stationed on top of
the three arriving "railroad" routes...

Glad to see we learned from that little mistake...

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Its always better to lose -an- engine, not -the- engine.


JohnČ]† †††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† July 10th 04 02:01 AM

In article , ian maclure
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 05:42:01 -0400, Cub Driver wrote:


What is your opinion of someone who gets a pilot slot in the guard, as
opposed
to someone who enters active duty infantry or naval forces, in the present
day.


Smart man!

(This comes from one who went through infantry basic at Fort Dix.)


Comes down to liking or not liking being perpetually tired,
cold, hungry, and bug bit.
Given the choice I think I'd pass on the infantry.
And besides active duty implies you may be interested in a
career. The Guard fills an important role for those who aren't
interested in a career but still want to be a soldier.


Being in the Infantry means keeping a pair of wet socks in the
refrigerator so that when you finally get home you can put them on and
be comfortable.

Got the Tee-Shirt, Benning School for Boys, 1968.

John

WalterM140 July 10th 04 03:10 AM

Ya know I really don't know what all the fuss was about here. I graduated
from
college in 1968 in Arizona.


Did you go to Officer Candidates School?

Bush 43 did not.


Walt




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
AviationBanter.com