"Pechs1" wrote in message
...
Reading 'Over the Beach',

Questions-

-How many pilots did they deploy with? They had a det in Cubi and 10
jets...

-Seems like a pretty unhappy group. Dept heads that were either labeled as
effeminate or cowards, JOs that got short and yelled at the CO, a JO that
turned his wings in cuz he didn't agree with the war, A CO that wasn't
very
well liked, a former CO that was committed to a looney bin...

I know it was over a long period of time and also during combat, which can
bring out the best and worse of people but it seems like a not very
cohesive
group...

Anybody have an insight? Masher??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

I guess I had met and knew all of them, before they made their first cruise
on the big "O". They were a good group of very skilled fighter pilots. Real
good, I had flown with many of them in the early 60's and flew a lot of
hours against all of them during their pre-deployment work-up.

Belly "B" (the former CO) was a wild man, but one of the best sticks I ever
flew with. Even in the early '60's he was considered "old School", a throw
back to the old days. His way wasn't the way to get ahead in the Navy. He
was a leader, not a manage, had few social graces, was probably an
alcoholic, and was definitely out of place in the peacetime Navy. But while
I was around him he was able to maintain control of himself. (I understand
that later on this was not always the case). I learned a whole lot, (good
and bad) from him in a very short time, during my nugget days. There wasn't
a lot of time to learn anything during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but Belly
and a couple of others taught me enough, so that I might have had a chance
if we had gone up against Cuban MiG-21's. ACM was the way of life in F-8' s
in those days. I guess if I admitted it Belly was the one that taught me the
correct way to make a vertical pass on a bomber. (A.K.A. thumping).

Most VF (F-8) squadrons at that time, deployed to SE Asia with 19 pilots.
They usually had a few aircraft at Cubi, in maintenance, with one pilot
(MaintO or one of the AsstMaintO). While on station, who ever needed or
earned a brake would ferry an aircraft back to cubi, spend a few days and
fly the replacement back. Plus the fighter squadrons had its choice of the
other aviators on the Wing staff, Carrier Group staff and ships company.
That meant that there were probably 23 or 24 total that flew with regularly.
(Although staff and ships company usually got stuck with fleet BARCAP or the
less desirable missions such as checking out the sampans).

I would say on their first deployment there were predominately two types in
the squadron. One were the guys that all they wanted to do was fly and
nothing else. The other were the ones that had careers. (This is not to say
that some of the ones with careers weren't warriors, some were). On the
first cruise they were tight, later on I understand the two groups split
almost into open warfare. I can't really say anything first hand, as I was
flying RF-8's then and only spoke to them in passing so to say. But they
didn't call the Wing "Bloody 16" for no reason at all. They were all under a
lot of stress, and it wasn't due to bad luck, but they had a lot of losses.
They went through some sh*t. I don't remember the numbers, but just about
every aircraft on the ship had been replaced once, and many had been
replaced two or three times. They had the highest losses of anyone in
Vietnam. IIRC VF-162 went through 15 aircraft, and brought back none of the
original ones, I believe they deployed with 14. The A-4 loses were even
higher, and I believe one squadron had 24 or 25 aircraft lost.

The accounts I got from friends about wings being turned in, was that it
definitely wasn't because he was scared or a coward. This was not the case
of several others (none in VF-162) that managed to leave the Navy, "because
they owed it to their families, to have a career with the airlines".

Of course this is all my opinion, and my reputation was such that I never
had to worry about getting a flag, (unless it was on my coffin) even if I
had been able to stay in the Navy.
--
Red