The current doctrine/hype seems to be to shoot BVR before the target
even sees your stealthy plane, whether the target is on the ground or
in the air. I always though that was a bit like the late fifties,
early sixties magic missiles optimism.

Three huge differences are the vastly improved missiles available today,
vastly improved radar/avionics, and most important, the vastly improved
non-cooperative target recognition systems available (that allow you to ID
planes without using IFF- e.g., using your radar to identify their engine
type). As NCTR is about as classified as it gets with jets, I don't know
any specifics, but the word is that the newer jets (Super Bug, Raptor, F-35)
all have pretty darn spiffy NCTR. That solves a lot of the ROE problems
that crippled BVR/magic missile combo in the sixties/Vietnam. Combine that
with increased use of datalinks and AWACS, and you have a much more reliable
employment of BVR techniques. The stats since GW 1 onwards bear out that
fact (and those were mostly with -15s and -16s).

Tony