(Issac Goldberg) wrote in message om...
wrote in message . com...

What Mike does best is finding the facts and presenting
his conclusions based on the facts; e.g. you are an idiot.

Another poster whose arguments are so weak that
he feels the need to resort to childish name calling.

He acknowledges that Congress has never conducted an
investigation devoted solely to the Liberty affair.

What makes "Congress" more qualified to run an investigation than
the CIA?

Ah, it's the old 'move the goalposts' ploy. When
confronted with the fact Congress did not conduct
a thorough investigation of the Liberty affair,
some people denigrate Congress.

So what?
To make an investigation you need the power of subpoena and
people who can ask the right questions. a Navy court of inquiry
has those powers, and it is the standard tool for the US Navy to
find the facts.

Do you think that Congress should double check every Navy inquiry,
or just the Liberty? If just the Liberty then please explain what
the Navy's court did wrong and how Congress may be able to fix.

IMO the Navy's court of inquiry has a better record of finding the
facts than Congress. If you reject this claim then please give
examples of Navy courtof inquiry making mistake, and Congress fixing
them.

Can Congress get more data?

A Congressional investigation can ask the CIA
to testify on all of the data that has been
collected.

A Navy court of inquiry can subpoena the CIA just like Congress can.
And since the Navy is better than Congress in keeping secrets, the
CIA will probably be more willing to coopertae.

Does Congress have deeper understanding of Israel?

A non sequitur with regard to the question of
whether the attack on the Liberty was intentional
or not.

You claim that Congress investigation will be "better."
I claim that for better investigation you should either have
the ability to collect more data, or the ability to understand
the data better. Do you reject my claim, yes or no?
And if yes then what is your counter-claim?

Does Congress have better exprerts in
navies-at-war issues than the US Navy?

Congress can request the testimony of the US Navy's
finest experts, who are then obligated to give
truthful answers, or face jail terms.

You assume that in short time Congressmen can become better experts
than people who spent years in sea commanding ships. I don't know
what is the base of your assumption, but I can tell you that you
can force people to tell you what they know, but knoweldge and
understanding is very different thing. E.g. a clueless person
like you who has access to all the data and still has no clue.

In other words, why should Congresss investigate the Liberty
incidence after the CIA concluded that the Israeli explanation
is reasonable.

Believe it or not, the CIA is not always right.

Believe it or not, Congress is not always right.
Believe it or not, Joseph McCarthy "investigations" did not catch
a single Russian spy.

Again, do you want to Congress to double-check everything that the
CIA say, or just the Liberty? And if just the Liberty then please
explain why the CIA can't be trusted in that case.

Make a case why the executive branch can't be trusted or shut up.

Also, the CIA is subject to political pressure which
may cause them to change their correct conclusions to
something else. Kind of like when Vice President
Cheney made his visits to CIA HQ at Langley, and the
CIA then started to find reasons to invade Iraq.

You make two baseless assumptions:
1) The Johnson adminstration put pressure on the CIA to lie
about Liberty.
2) Under eight different administrations, over 37 years, nobody in
the CIA discovered that their conclusions were baseless.

Again, make a case why the CIA can't be trusted in it Liberty
conclusions, or shut up.

The President can replace anyone at the CIA,
including the director, whenever he wants.

Yes.
You can make a case that Johnson had enough power to force the CIA
to lie about Liberty, but you still have to supply a motive. You
also have to explain how such a cover-up, invloving so many people,
can remian secret for 37 years.

But the
President cannot replace members of Congress,
since only the voters choose members of Congress.
Therefore, Congress should investigate because
they do not serve at the pleasure of the President.

I see.
We should get rid off Grand Juries, Court of Inquiries, and all that
jazz, and let just Congress investigate because only Congress can
be trusted.
(See http://libertyincident.com/cia.htm
@The Central Intelligence Agency completed an Intelligence
@Memorandum titled The Attack on the USS Liberty on 13 Jun
@1967. It was declassified on 31 Aug 1977. On page 4, in
@paragraph 5, the report concludes that the Liberty could
@easily be mistaken for the Egyptian transport El Quesir.)

Common sense refutes this.

The El Quesir was not outfitted with a large
and uniquely identifying antenna dish.

The first target attacked by the Israeli pilots
was Liberty's communications, and the large and
uniquely identifying antenna dish was quickly
put out of action.

If the El Quesir by some miracle had been
converted to an intelligence vessel with a
large and uniquely identifying antenna dish,
it would have been targeted and destroyed on
the first day of the war.

It sounds like there may have been some
political pressure put on the CIA to
produce the results that LBJ wanted.