Pechs,
could it be there is a difference in the way the USN saw some things and the
USAF did it?

What I noticed is a considerable difference in style of descriptions in USN
and USAF documents.

For example, paragraph 5 of NAVOPINTCEN SUITLAND MD message 102038Z Apr 88
(related by ONI under FOIA) states:

THE IRANIAN AIR FORCE WENT FOR OVER A YEAR FROM OCT 86 TO NOV 87 WITH OUT A
DETECTED AIR-AIR MISSILE FIRING. SUDDENLY IN NOVEMBER 87 F-4'S FROM BUSHEHR
ENGAGED IRAQI AIRCRAFT NORTH OF BANDAR KHOMEYNI WITH MULTIPLE AAM'S. IN
EARLY FEB 88 AN IRIAF F-14 APPARENTLY DOWNED AN F-1 SE OF FARSI ISLAND AND
ANOTHER F-14 FIRED AT TWO TARGETS 3 HOURS LATER. SINCE THEN BOTH F-4 AND
F-14 AIRCRAFT HAVE SHOWN AN INCREASED AGGRESSIVENESS AND WILLINGNESS TO
EMPLY AAMS. MOST RECENTLY IN MID-MARCH AN F-14 DOWNED AN F-1 DURING AN
ATTACK ON KHARG ISLAND IN AND AN F-14 MAY HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ENGAGE A C-601
LAUCNHED FROM A H-6D. A BANDAR ABBAS F-4 POSSIBLY LAUNCHED AN AAM AGAINST
TWO F-1's RTB AFTER A RAID ON LAVAN ISLAND IN EARLY APRIL.

As you can read here, there are lots of guesses here about results of
missiles fired from Iranian fighters.

USAF documents, on the contrary, are usually very clear, stating exactly how
many missiles were fired and what was shot down.

Also, I never found any kind of such a ridiculous statement in any USAF
document, explaining that Iranians fired not a single AAM between October
1986 and November 1987.

I purposedly say "ridiculous" here, because - and this is just a SINGLE
example that comes to my mind right now - on 1 September 1987 the USN picked
up an Iraqi Mirage F.1 pilot from the waters of the lower Persian Gulf.
There are documents about this case and there are even photos of the Iraqi
pilot in the National Archives. The Iraqi spent two days in his dinghy -
after being shot down (by an AAM) in an air combat with F-14 flown by the
top IRIAF ace of the whole war, late Lt.Gen. Jalal Zandi. And that in full
view of several USN warships from a convoy to Kuwait that was passing by.

How comes the SUITLAND MD message I cited above states that not a single AAM
was fired by IRIAF in air combats with Iraqis between October 1986 and
November 1987?

Finally, the document above is not mentioning by a single word an air battle
that occurred over Khark on 18 March 1988 - in full view of no less but five
USN warships. In course of this engagement - according to rumorus I've heard
from USAF and IRIAF sources - IRIAF F-14s fired five AIM-54s, downing at
least a Tu-22 and a MiG-25R. When I asked ONI for release of related
documents, they said I should go and ask State Department. State Department
said they can't release them.

Why?

What to hell can be so secret in these documents - and since when is State
Department responsible for USN documents describing air battles between Iran
and Iraq?

--
************************************************** ***********************
Tom Cooper
Freelance aviation journalist

Author:
- Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

- Arab MiG-19 and MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6550

- Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

- African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

- Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
************************************************** ***********************
"Pechs1" wrote in message
...
Rob- To give Tom the benefit of the doubt, are there any reasonable
scenarios that would account for a limited dissemination of the
information? Couldn't we just blame compartmentalization? BRBR

Doubt it. We knew quite a lot about the F-14s capability after Iran fell.
We
knew who helped to maintain them and how they received spare parts.

We knew a lot about other airforces and their engagments, but never a word
about the 'success' of Iran against the airforces of Iraq, using the
Turkey.
think if it existed, it would be all over the USN...since we flew the
aircraft.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer