Mike, I think I know where you're coming from, but would like to seek
clarification.

How bad could the cam be? Although it wasn't *flown* in 2 years, it was
run/taxied regularly (monthly? who knows?). Yes, I'm aware that it got no
where near operating temp, acids in the oil, etc. I just wanted to clarify
that it wasn't really just sitting for 2 years. No way would I even look at
that unless it was priced to account for a factory reman!

But, I'm curious. I know that a pre-buy / annual won't find EVERYTHING. So
do you just go with gut feel? Do you reduce an offer price any to account
for unknowns on *any* plane? Or, does the fact that a plane is flown
regularly provide better confidence that what you're getting is close to
what's represented?

Thanks; getting better at finding the issues;
Carl

"Mike Spera" wrote in message
...
Hey Carl,

It would be interesting to track this as it unfolds. I doubt you would
get truthful and accurate numbers, but I'm sure the group would love to
see where this fellow ends up.

Top overhaul? Yeah right. Until they pull the cylinders and see the
corroded, useless cam. After 2 years of sitting - I would put money on it.

And I love the notion of "subtract all the necessary repairs from the
purchase price". I would agree if I could fly it for a year and do the
following annual with MY mechanic. We subtract all the repairs for the
year and anything that comes up in the next annual. Then I will tell you
that is a good method of figuring the plane's real worth. All the
"necessary repairs" are not going to jump off the plane and fall into
the mechanic's squawk book today. Guaranteed. But, after 80-100 hours of
operation, I'd place money on the fact that many, many items (initially
unnoticed) come up. I'll make it interesting, I'll pay for half of what
comes up and, of course, I'll pay for the inspections.

In the "subtract the repairs from the price scenario", who gets to
decide what the anticipated "repair price" will be? For this "top
overhaul", are we getting new cylinders or some off the rack, cut rate
rebuilds? If I am right and this top overhaul goes South, will it be a
new cam or regrind? Will we assume the case will be usable? Alternator
overhaul, carb overhaul, prop overhaul, muffler, exhaust stacks, hoses,
control cables, scat tubing, pulleys, and the list goes on and on.

But, as you said, they guy got greedy. He has been fooled by his own
marketing and is trying to "buy" the airplane himself by taking on all
the repairs. He just did you a tremendous favor. You get to watch what
would have happened to you.

My prediction: the total bill to get this thing in reasonable flying
condition plus 6 months of flying will double or worse. More likely,
when the bills start to mount, he will try to cheap out the remaining
repairs or he will bail out and put it on the market again unfinished.

I would look at a prospective plane like this: what does it have going
for it? Paint, interior, engine, airframe, and avionics. If one is weak
and the price is right, the bird is usually worth a look. Two or more
and my interest fades no matter what the price.

Opinions vary,
Mike

Carl Orton wrote:
UPDATE: Between the time the original note was posted and now, the deal
has
fallen through. Owner decided the plane was worth more to him even with
adding all the rework rather than selling for a loss.

Thanks for the responses, though!
Carl

"Carl Orton" wrote in message
...

Hi, All;

Have looked at some a/c for sale, and have found one I'm interested in.

The bird has not been flown in over two years, and is out of annual.

The owner said that he would have an annual done before quoting me a

price;

guess he figures it will be worth more as a result. This was one of
those
situations where I noticed a plane that didn't seem to have much use, so
I
decided to contact the owner.

So, an annual was scheduled. The A&P (has never seen this a/c before)
says
that it needs quite a bit of work. Needs a top overhaul, some brake
work,
nose strut rebuilt, and some other lesser items. Otherwise, the airframe

is

in good shape; paint fair, but passes the 20' test, needs some carpet
and
plastic.

What is usual here for working up a price, realizing that there probably
isn't any typical way of handling the negotiations? At this point,
nothing
is signed. The owner is stating that if everything was working fine, it
would be worth "X" dollars, and he is considering the option of selling
it
for "X" minus the estimated cost of repairs for the items above.

My thoughts are that since a test flight has not occured, that more
things
might crop up, so the price should be decremented some more. Is there
any
rule of thumb for these situations? It's a common simple plane, but I'd
really prefer to work with something local at my current airport instead

of

continuing to hunt all over the state/country.

Thanks;
Carl








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