I have to agree that the price is high given the engine hours on the plane.

If the plane were cherry, with a low time engine, autopilot, and a Garmin
430, it might bring about 70k. That would mean new or close to new paint
and interior, clean logs, a well known and reputable rebuilt engine and 100
to 250 hours on the engine and prop. Adding an AP and 430 costs much more
than you get back.

You can work backwards from there to get a lowball price, and then start
haggling.

At 1700 hours the engine is close to worthless, and there are lots of planes
like that around to choose from. The only hope for someone in your seller's
position to get a price like he is asking is that he and his plane are known
by the buyers. Otherwise, everything is assumed to be as bad as it can be
by any potential buyers.

If you really like the skyhawk, then it likely is not a bad plane for you
( the thing about buying an old skyhawk is that its like buying vanilla at
31 flavors ). Given your hours, you may want to look at other choices.
Tigers are more fun IMO, and a 182 is much more versatile (though more
expensive in everyway).




"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"
Jerry Napoliano writes:

I'm a first time buyer, and I've come across a 172P for sale at a
local airport. Its a 1981, 4000TTAF, 1700SMOH. No GPS, standard
avionics (digital radios, 720CH, ADF, Audio Panel, Xpndr) No damage
history and a current annual and IFR certification.

It looks to be extremely clean inside and out. Paint seems to be a 7
or 8. It is privately owned, although I don't know about rental
history in the past.

The owner is asking $57,000. My thoughts are that I could but a
Garmin 430 for around $4k, (how much would installation be??) and in
300 hours I'll need a new engine. After a $20k engine swap, will it
be worth $77k or more with 4300TTAF and 0SMOH?

Does this make sense as a first airplane, with times like these, or
should I look for something with lower times and a GPS already
installed?

And finally... does the price seem reasonable as is, or should it be
priced lower due to the engine time?


Price seems reasonable which is a SWAG at this distance.

First, don't spend more that about 80% of your budget on a plane. The
first
couple of years will eat up the rest as you get it to your liking.

Second, an IFR (Garmin 430) GPS will cost about $10k installed(and it is
well
worth it). Expect to get 50% of cost back on instrumentation (maybe a
little
more on the 430). A hand held will get you GPS for $1k (but not IFR).

The engine life at 1700 hrs is very dependent on such things as oil
consumption, metal in the filter, oil analysis over the last few oil
changes(you want to see trends), time since overhaul, compression
readings,
general smoothness etc.. It may last another 50 or 500, who knows?

An engine overhaul will take the plane out of service for some time. You
will
be paying for a plane you don't have. A friend had his plane down for 7
months
(but that long is unusual). You'll get most of you cost back on an
overhaul.

Finally, a airplane for most of us is a love afare so after all is said
and
done, if the plane says "Hi Jerry, I love YOU" GO FOR IT! I did when I
bought
my Archer 7 years ago and we are still in love. :-)

Chuck