On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:26:14 -0500, "Happy Dog"
wrote:

"Robert Perkins" wrote in message

http://www.ffrf.org/tm.php?tm=dawkins.html

It's nonsense, that is, fallacy in the form of the Genuine but
Insignificant Cause. If it were true, then people espousing atheist
belief systems would consistently behave much better than they've
proven to have behaved.

Nope. That isn't a conclusion of the preceding material. And, where did
you get that reference from?

The reference came from two posts up. As for your rejoinder, Dawkins
wrote:

"The human psyche has two great sicknesses: the urge to carry vendetta
across generations, and the tendency to fasten group labels on people
rather than see them as individuals. Abrahamic religion gives strong
sanction to both--and mixes explosively with both."

(In his sidebar, he ranted it.)

This opens up a serious hole in all his reasoning, because at the very
least the texts of *two* of the three Abrahamic religions he cites
deny its followers any excuse to answer the urges of vendetta and
racism or theism at all.

The Law of Moses' "Eye for eye" rule is one: it's a *retreat* from
multi generational vendetta, and a demand that the followers of the
Mosaic covenant consider individual wrongdoing to the exclusion of
group wrongdoing. [1]

The central Christian law is "Love God, Love Your Neighbor". "Bless
those that curse you. Do good to those who despitefully use you and
persecute you." "Don't take revenge, vengeance is God's" Long letters
about personal and institutional charity, without which the Christian
is nothing at all, and God cannot save him. Also individualistic. Also
a denial of the impulse to vendetta and racism.

I don't know much about Islamic doctrine, but *all* of the Muslims
I've ever met have been remarkably tolerant and peaceful people living
in a mixed culture of many religions. They live a denial of the
impulse to vendetta and racism. (And have historically, as a *whole*
done a relatively better job of it than Christians ever did.)

The centers of these belief systems direct individual behavior. It's
only to the extent that thugs and demagogues use sophistry within
those systems that we come out with the warped abuses which produce
"fundamentalists" (even that appellation is a lie; Judeochristian
fundamentals don't permit aggressive warmaking) of all stripes.

I agree with the author that religion is in the mix, but natural human
impulses, not religion, are at the root of the violent organized
murder of the last 100 years, almost all of which were undertaken
without "religion" as the root excuse. World Communism, as
implemented, murdered 100,000,000 people. No "religion" there! Since
other "non-religious" philosophies have mixed "explosively" with the
sicknesses of the human psyche, his case is not made.

Sky god indeed. He doesn't know what he's talking about, and could
probably benefit from a look at all the "Christian" nations which now
live nominally in *peace* with one another, having overthrown their
own thugs in favor of implementing the individualistic fundaments of
that Judeochristian ethical center. He could also benefit from an
objective look at Leviticus.

Rob
[1] And if you look closely at what Israel does to its enemy
neighbors, you'll see that its behavior is virtually always
retaliatory self-defense. Israelis target the badguys "eye for eye",
hitting innocents only when the thugs hide behind them or among them.

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card