one more post in a thread that should have died...
"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

However, the topic needs to be discussed. There appear to be a number of
deluded individuals that think being forced to work without pay is a
good
thing. Personally, I think it is theft and, at bottom, an offense as
serious
as murder.

You have GOT to be kidding.

Please get a grip, CJ, and develop a few more nuances in your sense
of perspective.

One wonders: why all these people willing to put up with such
conditions?
They think that if they just build enough hours or 'pay their dues' that
they will eventually get a decent paying job.

Precisely.

And when they do start demanding to be paid, does that mean that they
have
lost their work ethic?

It means they have decided that their long-term goals are no longer
being served by their short-term deprivations.

I'm an engineer, a widowed 40-something single dad. A year ago I gave up a
good geek job in a struggling business unit (telecom not much of a growth
industry since 2000) of a great company when the choice seemed between being
a good engineer or a good dad. Not yet looking for a job, was planning that
for the springtime, but a chance connection with an old friend who is now
the CEO with a startup has led to the possibility of doing some fun work.
The senior people are all working only for equity right now. If I join them,
I'll be in the same boat until the springtime and then the salaries will
still not be what I had, but still lots of equity.

That equity might never be worth something. It might be worth a lot. It
probably (if it is the average startup) will never equal the cushy job with
great retirement that captains for the major carriers have managed to pry
out of the system (at least from carriers that aren't threatened with
bankruptcy).


If everyone in the profession pretty much feels the same way, things
will change. If there's a line of people with the same qualifications
out the door and around the block who are willing to deal with the
status quo working conditions, the polite employer's response will
be "good luck in your future endeavors, don't let the door hit you
on the way out"

It's called supply-and-demand in the free market, and while it's not
pretty sometimes I haven't heard of a better system yet.

Sydney

In general, flying is a lot more fun than engineering, it requires much less
education and more people have the requisite talent. No surprise the
beginning wages are paltry. And before anyone wants to start in on the cost
to self train to fly, my alma mater is now charging over $20K a year and
degrees still take four years.

-Greg