Greg,

Very nice post. Thanks. I just posted my shrot "pass" report. I said 5
min of passage. After reading your post, I realize that I could be
wrong. But that's certainly my honest impression. I was too concered
with the coming turbulence.

I'm still not sure if I want to do a night pass on the Grapevine. At
daytime, there looks like quite a few places at the foothills or near
the shore of the lakes that make good emergency landing spot. But it
would be impossible to tell at night. I feel like I will never land
at/on a highway. I hate eletricution when I'm dying. But I figure if I
ever fly at night through the Grapevine, I-5 would be a nice to follow
and avoid the moutains nearby.

Jizhong
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:00:57 GMT, "Greg Goodknight"
wrote:

Jim, I've been over the Grapevine at night multiple times. In VMC, the area
is such that it is rare to not be within gliding distance of some lit chunk
of pavement that is more hospitable than the usual invisible night granite.
It is certainly more than a 10 minute passage, though; I'm not sure where he
got that number.

Many twins have such poor single engine performance that the extra engine
does little besides give a false sense of security; it will indeed allow you
to fly to the accident site. Having a well maintained single with a low Vs
and better glide ratio can be as safe. Safe is a very relative term here.
The "pick any two" from "Single Engine, Night, Mountains" guide is a good
starting point to evaluate a plan and to give folks pause, but as a real
go/nogo rule I think it is too simplistic.

To the unitiated, Tejon Pass (also known as Gorman or the Grapevine) is
between the California Central valley and the San Fernando Valley of Los
Angeles. There is an 8040' peak just 8 miles to the west of the airway and a
few others that are nearly as tall; to the east, the hills are nearly to
6000'. And a four lane (each way) freeway known as Interstate 5 cuts through
it, the main artery between northern and southern California. The actual
pass is marked as being at 4239'. The MEA on the V 23 airway is 9500', a
good bet for a night VMC flight and it has radar coverage by Bakersfield
Approach and LA Center.

In my Cherokee, at night in VMC, IFR or VFR Flight Following, I'd not
hesitate to fly the Grapevine (and *some* other mountainous routes) with a
flight plan filed and both eyes open. *Might* be doing it again on Wednesday
eve, although I-5 will be bumper to bumper and not a good emergency landing
choice (it really never is, anyway). If VFR I make the occasional call to
FSS (if a long flight) to update position just like my primary instructor
had me do in 1974 when flying the Grapevine on my long solo XC on my way to
Bakersfield, Santa Barbara and back to Brackett/Pomona.

-Greg

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
.. .
Obviously you've never been over the Grapevine before.

Jim



shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

Now, by the way, my proposed route is only a 10min flight
-over a pass. Flat land both sides.



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com