Hi Big John,

Please understand, this is not an attack on your abilities as a tailwheel
pilot. I merely observed something in your post that I've seen many times
before so I used it to bring up a few points about 'tailwheel training'.

You said;


You clipped in your post the wheel comment I made originally.


If I'm interpreting your message correctly, I suppose this was in reference
to the fact that you said,


"Next week he borrow the bird from boss and took to Big Bend Park area in
south Texas, landing on a very primitative (out back) strip. Only shot a
couple of wheel landings so he could say he had shot some."


The points I were making in my original post we

#1 He was (according to your message) signed off prior to ever having done
any wheel landings.
#2 When he finally did do wheel landings, he only did two. (Just to say, "he
had shot some".)
#3 Simply satisfying the FAR is just the bare minimum required for sign off.

These points substantiate my views posted previously, about so many
tailwheel pilots being signed off having no or very little training in wheel
landings. The FAR's say they have to 'show proficiency' prior to the
endorsement.

As for the float flying, you never push the stick/yoke forward while
landing. I'm sure you know that and I'm not exactly sure what your point was
with that comment. And if you compare it to .landing a tailwheel, it's more
like doing a wheel as opposed to a 3 point landing.

As for the Alaska pilots, I can only speak from my own personal experience.
I fly Part 135 in Alaska, mostly 185's and Beaver's. I Instruct for fun (on
the side - when I'm in the mood) in mostly Super Cub's, Citabria's and
140's, sometimes the 185. I personally do wheel landings most of the time.
This includes landings on snow, glaciers, ridges, river bars and in and out
of short 600 foot strips, what ever. It's really very rare that I'll do a 3
point landing. It seems that 'most' pilots that I work with up here also do
wheel landings most of the time. But that's not to say that there's not
people who do mostly 3 point landings. It's just my experience that with my
flying and watching all the other pilots I see in my area, that the wheel
landings are the most often used.

There are obvious advantages and disadvantages of both types of landings,
and we could argue them all day long. Personally, I like wheel landings,
they work for me and I've never had and accident doing them.

If you ever get up to Alaska, drop me a note and I'll show you around.
PJ

===============
Reply to:
pj at offairport dot com
===============
Here's to the duck that swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together. J.J.W.
=========================================


"Big John" wrote in message
...
PJ

Re-read my original post. You clipped in your post the wheel comment I
made originally.

Comment on landings.

Wheel landings.

Two basic types of wheel landings.

1. High airspeed on final and when over the runway and flared stick it
on the ground with lots of forward stick. This puts the prop near the
ground and the tail way up in the air.

If you have a short R/W (out back) there is a good chance it is not
long enough to make that kind of a wheel landing.

As bird slows down you have to transition from the main gear to a
three point attitude to get the tail wheel on the ground and with a
cross wind this takes proficiency that a flight once or twice a month
with one landing each will not give even if both are wheel landings..

2. Normal final air speed and normal flare and hold bird off in a tail
low (not three point ) attitude . As main gear touches release the
back pressure on stick (maybe add a 'little' forward stick) and roll
down the R/W on main gear using rudder for directional control.

Same problems transitioning from main wheels to three point.

Three point landing.

Three point touch down at minimum speed (bird stalled). Won't bounce
back in air like a wheel landing can do if forward stick is not
applied correctly.

During and after three point touch down you hold the stick full back
all the time which holds the tail wheel firmly on the ground and helps
prevent ground loops (that happen oftener in wheel landings).

I've clipped some of my text but believe you will get the idea of my
years of tail wheel flying in all kinds of WX, R/W and aircraft.

errata

If you have floats do you try to stick the floats on or do you try to
touch down in a tail low attitude?

My '51 Group had one Sq who made all wheel landings. My Sq made three
point. We had half the landing accidents the other Sq had.

I wonder if any of the AK jocks are reading this post and can comment
on wheel landings in AK?

Big John


On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:51:08 -0800, "PJ" pj at off airport dot com
wrote:

First period was three point touch and go and full stop on hard
surface with light winds down the R/W. Included systems
instruction.

2nd flight was three point landings on hard surface with 20 mph cross
wind and review of systems.

3rd flight was three point on gravel an dirt runway and review of
systems.

Signed off.

Big John,

Sounds like you forgot the wheel landings.

FAR 61.31(i)(1)(ii) requires it unless recommended against by the
manufacturer.

Or perhaps the last tailwheel checkout you gave fell under FAR
61.31(i)(2)

After several thousand hours of tailwheel time and several more under
'instruction given', I've seen some really sharp people show profiecncy
in a
very short time. But even the best of them could not demonstrate normal
and
crosswind takeoffs and landings, wheel landings and go-around procedures
in
the times given by some of the posters on this board.

I'm always amazed at how many tailwheel pilots I've met who say they
never
did wheel landings during their training. And of the vast majority who
did
do them say, "but we only did one or two".

IMHO, beyond just what's required by the FAA, I feel we do a disservice
to
ourselves and mostly to our tailwheel students if we don't do the best we
can at trying to 'mix things up' for them. They need to know, and feel
what
it's like to land without enough right rudder, or what happens when it
starts to swerve on them, or applying to much brake to soon, or using
differential braking improperly, etc...

If the student never experiences these things with us on board, what are
their chances of a good out come when it happens in real life?

PJ