????!

I've been to the UK -- home of the soccer riot -- several times, and I can
assure you that it's not all tea and crumpets over there, despite the
facade
you all try to put on. There is just as much crime, the streets are just
as
dirty, the air is just as polluted and the people and culture are every
bit
as violent as anything you can find in the USA (and I grew up and
currently
live in New York City). Period.

The difference is that you people are all beginning to believe your own
bull**** about the sophistication and high-mindedness of your society.
This
of course serves to no ones advantage more than the criminal element, who,
while you all walk around patting each other on the back for that utopian
accomplishment of 'banning guns', the criminals gleefully bask in their
newfound freedom to take whatever they need from you.

You said it yourself, if a criminal with a pipe asked for your wallet,
you'd
gladly hand it over. To you, it's only 20 pounds, but to the criminal,
it's
a great way to make a living. Do that a mere 4 or 5 times a day, and he's
doing alright for himself, especially compounded with the welfare he's
undoubtably on.

So you see, you've managed to create a wonderful new criminal class.

And by the way, any society in which a large number of citizens beat each
other into a bloody pulp on a regular basis over a sporting event (much
less
soccer) has no right to call themselves 'nonviolent'.

When was the last time anyone was killed at a baseball game?


Secondly if I was to be held up the aim is to not get in a fight but to
survive. Not about being a pascifist, its about being smart and knowing
when
to fight and when not to fight.


But again, you are leaving that choice -- one of your very survival -- in
the hands of a criminal. If you are unable to defend yourself, and he
knows
that for a 100% fact, then like it or not, HE is the one calling the
shots,
not you. Even if you cheerfully comply with every single demand he makes,
there is no guarantee that he won't kill you or your family just for the
hell of it. You have removed any option for fighting back, and have
adopted
pasifism by default.

I was held up at knive point in South Africa last year by two black
youths.
The main aim was to get the guy with the knive as far away from me as
possible. So I let him have the camera and threw 100 rand ( $10) on the
floor. He dropped the camera, which I picked up and then fled empty
handed.
No point having a fight.


So you got mugged by two incompetant criminals. And in most situations,
the
best move is probably to just give the guy the lousy $10 and hope he
chokes
on it. BUT, your country has eliminated any means for the citizenry to
defend itself against anything at all, thus swinging the doors wide open
for
criminals to take advantage of the population in ways far more numerous
and
egregious than a random petty theft.


FWIW Brits have more chance of being robbed and murdered on vacation in
Florida than we do in our own country.

That is simply not true.


On your hypothesis we should all be
issued with guns on entry to the US to give us a fair chance.

And also FWIW Europeans dont fear guns. As was pointed out earlier they
are
inanimate objects absolutely useless until a persons picks on up. The
fear
is about who can and who has access to guns and their attitute to using
them.
The gun is never the problem its the person.

Well, yes, that is in fact true. However, all you have done by making guns
illegal is to ensure that the only people who don't have them are the
law-abiding citizens. Criminals who are going to commit a crime anyway
simply disregard the gun laws as well.

As for the Americans war on terrorism, they were pretty absent when we
were
fighting the Irish terrorists in fact many of them were funding Irish
terrorist organisations. Not exactly a consistent policy.


That is not exactly the same thing, although I would probably say that if
the level of Irish terrorism was, today, at the same level it was in the
80's, the American attitude towards it would be far, far different, as
9/11
has changed everything.


Great post Thomas....................