"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Thank you for casting some light into the darkness! I'm not sure I
feel any safer now, but at least I'm better informed

Too bad most of what he said was just wrong, or irrelevant.


On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:28:35 GMT, Richard Riley
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 05:58:18 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:

:
:The only dangerous
:thing that a bullet in an aircraft could do is hit something in the
:control system (guess how many backup systems there are?) or take out
:an engine (they can fly without one) or hit one of the people in the
:cockpit. (there are two of them, at least)
:
:Well, it could hit me--that's dangerous!

True, and that's something that everyone involved would like to avoid.
All the good guys, anyway. All that blood to clean up, all the
paperwork. Just a bad scene all around.
:
:Thanks for the information about frangibles / prefragmented / sky
:marshal rounds. But are the marshal's rounds different again from
refragmented?

FAM's have rounds that are loaded especially for the unique job
environment that they face, rounds that are not commercially
available. I can't comment any further than that.

The Glasers are amazing. I don't have any direct experience with the
MagSafes, but they're similar. The Glasers have a thin copper jacket,
designed to tear away. Inside they take #12 birdshot, dip it in
teflon, and swage it into the jacket. The teflon keeps the shot from
fusing. When it hits, each piece takes off on it's own path and makes
it's own wound channel. If it's not a lethal hit, there's so much
surface area in the wound channels that the target bleeds massively,
and goes into shock within a couple of seconds. Get hit in something
like the upper thigh, you'll bleed to death in 30 seconds or so. I
saw a sick horse put down with one shot to the chest from a .38 with a
Glaser, it was down in a count of 4.
:
:The way I'm reading this is this: Sky marshals do indeed have a type
f breakup round that is intended to lessen the chance that the guy
:behind the hijacker will be killed, and that has nothing to do with
:the possibility of piercing the aircraft shell?

I can say that avoiding piercing the aircraft shell is not priority.
Think about it this way. An airplane is flying at about 10 psi
internal pressure, with maybe 4 psi pressure outside (these are VERY
rough figures, flame away if you wish).

6 psi is not much more than you can blow with your lungs, if you push
HARD you'll get up to about 5 psi.

Now, how much could you blow, with your lungs, through a short piece
of 1/2 inch pipe? That's about the diameter hole that a pistol bullet
would make in the skin of an airliner, or through an airliner window.

It's not very much. Look at the windows on some older airliners. See
the little holes in the corners? That's to let a little air leak out.
Take all those holes together, they're much greater area than 1/2".
Depressurization from a bullet is a non issue, there's 100 times more
bleed air available for pressurization than you'd loose through a
bullet hole.

A much greater issue is what's under the floor (control stuff, cables,
electronics and hydraulics, and fuel tanks and lines) and what's
behind (or, in front of) the cockpit bulkhead. Prefrag rounds spray
on the back side of such things, and would greatly lessen the damage
that could be done to such critical items.

On a side note - hollow point or soft point expanding bullets are
banned in war by the Geneva Convention. Pre fragmented bullets
aren't. In a conventional war between states, you actually want to
wound the enemy - if you kill him, that's one enemy gone. If you
wound him, it's him, the medic, the ambulance, the hospital, doctor,
nurse, etc, that you've tied up.

Whoops, gotta go, time for Babys's 3 am feeding.

Don't worry about airliners, they're about the most hardened target we
have right now. Shipping containers, small planes, electrical grids,
railroads, chemical plants, rock concerts, football games, LNG ships -
those are the things to worry about.

RR

all the best -- Dan Ford
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