Newps wrote:



Enefesdi Varspooli Bhootpalamdi wrote:

in all seriousness, i certainly hope you don't come into contact with
student pilots or pilots that are still malleable in their attention
to detail or attitude towards doing every last useful thing to further
safety of flight for everyone; not just themselves.

As a matter of fact I do, as a rep of the FAA no less. Every pilot
meeting we have with the college I speak of I reccomend that they talk
less and look more, just from a personal preference standpoint.

so, as a representative of the FAA, you're foisting your personal
preferences on students and college CFIs instead of the recommended
procedure in the AIM? how interesting. you wouldn't want to back up
your claim of being an FAA employee with a certificate number? and i
don't think cleaning the toilets at your FSDO counts as being a
representative.

you need only consider the situation where instrument traffic gets a
late handoff to an uncontrolled CTAF,

And then what good is the 48 radio calls you just made if there's no one
there?

what good are the course corrections in the clouds if there's no
mountains there? or other planes? because you're going to get yelled
at, and you might even hit something. the more you do it, the better
the odds of both.

going onto base or final, and you have yourselves an error chain fit
for a midair.

Are you looking outside? Ever?

oh, i'm sorry. you must not have heard. we have these things called
headsets now. they actually have the microphones *attached* to the
headset, so you don't have to bend down and pick it up, and talk into it
while contemplating your navel any more. try http://www.sportys.com

do you have to look down to find the PTT switch every time? or is there
some sort of physical limitation you possess that somehow closes your
eyes when you open your mouth? you must have alot of bruises from
running into things constantly.


when both planes are low, slow, and focused on the runway.

need me to draw a picture?

Sounds like about all you would understand.

yeah. pretty much. at least i know how to draw one. see extended.


note: read the AIM on proper radio speaking technique, not just when
to speak. you'll probably cut down your transmission lengths by half.

Have you ever read this newsgroup? Ever?

have you ever read the AIM? ever?

AND ANOTHER THING. stop asking for any traffic in the area to please
advise when you change to CTAF;

Oh I see now, you think I drive a jet.

no, but it certainly sounds like you drive a plane.

change 10nm out, that way you can listen

for anyone in the pattern making PROPER calls on EVERY leg.


Radio calls are not necessary, on any leg.

nor is using a landing light if the aircraft is not for hire at night,
but we turn those on during the day for visibility don't we? why don't
you use the radio? just sounds like you're scared to use it. either
that or you have a thpeech impediment, and have a complexsh about it.

if there was only one person in the pattern there, and they were
making one call on every downwind, and doing full-stop taxibacks, you
probably want to listen up 20nm up if you're not flying a piper cub.


I fly a 182. At 10 miles out one call every midfield downwind would
allow me to hear 3 or 4 calls. That's plenty enough for me. How about
you?

i've flown everything from a citabria to a PC12. and being an FAA
employee *snort*, you'll realize that you don't get handoffs based on
groundspeed. you get them based on distance and in some cases, altitude.

the simple facts related to this are laid out thusly:

one call per circuit results in approximately 6-10 calls per hour, given
a suitable landing runway and a pattern that's not overly congested.
let's pick the average of 8 circuits per hour. that means, in a given
hour, you make eight radio calls. are you saying that it takes you
22-30 minutes to make it to an airport from 10nm in your 182? 3-4
reports, right? BS. even in a 182, you can easily see 130 KIAS,
especially on a properly planned descent. let's say you've got 7nm to
go from the handoff to the 45 entry. do you know how long it takes to
go 7nm at 130kt GS? three minutes and twelve seconds.

that 3-4 reports isn't starting to look so hot, is it. survey says?
BZZZRT. sorry.

so apparently it is 100% possible, and might even be more probable to
happen than not, that you'll enter the pattern with one other person in
it, and not hear a single radio call from them, because they only call
midfield downwind. which is *exactly* where you will be entering the
downwind from the 45, because you only follow certain parts of the AIM
you agree with, but not the others that just don't make sense to someone
like you.

the *maximum* groundspeed to go 7nm in the eight minutes required or
more, is 52.5kt. that's *required* if you're going to hear that once
every seven-eight minute call before you enter the pattern. even given
10 takeoff/landings per hour, hence 10 calls per hour, the maximum
airspeed to guarantee hearing that *ONE* radio call before you enter the
pattern is 70kt. for all 7nm to the 45. yeah, right.

now you're starting to sound like quite an ass. apparently you did need
me to draw a picture for you, after all.

notice i didn't even bring up getting a handoff at 210KIAS at 4000' MSL
on a 20C day. OR maybe i will: it takes 1.8 minutes to make it from
handoff to 45, assuming a constant speed. we can add .5 for a slowdown
to gear speed, 2.3 minutes sounds okay. suddenly that call per leg
model starts to sound alot more attractive, especially considering the
closure rates of higher performance aircraft.

don't even bother replying if you're just going to blather on about how
i'm wrong and you're right; i expect a cogent, comprehensible argument
as to how these numbers, and this simple, simple math doesn't actually
mean what it does.

%nfsd