Even though I think there is some grey area here, I agree with the overly
curt but usually accurate Steven.

The last instruction issued was "remain clear' and that was issued, by tail
number, by approach to the aircraft (they would not have issued a
transponder without a tail number).

The grey area is that the 'remain clear' was issued *before departure*.
Once in the air, it seems reasonable to assume that an acknowleged call with
tail number is clearance in. But it seems ill advised to proceed on such an
assumption.

Here's the problem faced by the controller - a pilot asks for FF or whatever
before takeoff. The controller has absolutely no way to fix the time the
pilot will depart. So in order to avoid a misunderstanding about being
cleared into Class C while on the ground, he issues a 'remain clear' by
default. Once the pilot is in the air, the normal provisions would then
apply. An acknowledged call would be clearance into the space unless a
'remain clear' is issued. I'd bet that's what the controller intended ....
but I wouldn't act on it. It's a nasty grey area and requires some explicit
clarification before proceeding.

In IFR land, the problem is avoided by issuing a void time clearance in
order to fix the time that the pilot takes off and airspace has to be
cleared.

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
Ahh jeez, Steven... Firstly, because the question was not one for which
there is a pat answer in the AIM, I researched my answer before giving
it... A habit more people on here could benefit from... And, even though
I
couched my answer in gentle terms, it is the correct regulatory answer,
not
a guess...

As I commented, I don't see specific phrase in the AIM for the controller
to
use for clearing an aircraft into the Class C after being told to stand
clear - and it might be a good idea...

But I could still be wrong, so I just polled both the Supervisor of a
Class
C airspace, and I polled the supervisor of the Michigan FSDO... Both
agree
that the AIM is correct... A pilot is cleared into the class C when the
controller establishes radio contact using the tail number; and does not
instruct him to remain clear... Nothing more is required...

So, on the first call the pilot was told, "Aircraft calling remain clear
of
Charlie?, or "November 1234 remain clear of Class Charlie.", or words to
that effect... Fine, we all agree he is to remain clear...
Now the controller calls a bit later and says something to the effect,
"November 1234, radar contact 8 miles east of xyz, altimeter 30 point 00",
or some variation and shuts up - because he has established radio
contact
which is 'the clearance to enter'...

So, I asked both, wouldn't you tell the pilot that he is now 'cleared to
enter the C', to avoid confusion.. They both replied that there is no
confusion... The clearance to enter a Class C airspace is establishing
radio
contact using the tail number exactly as spelled out in the AIM..
denny

"Steven P. McNicoll" Wrong. Once told to memain clear you must remain
clear until the controller
issues an instruction that permits entry.