"Mark" wrote in message
om...

Pete:
I was trying to be a little nice, but I guess you expected more?

It's nice to have a NG forum to debate these issues AFTER the fact,
however in the cockpit you don't have the luxery of debating the issue
and looking up every nuance in the FAR's. The pilot was told "after
departure remain clear of the class C airspace". Then "After
departure" he was call with some trivial info and then "I turned and
headed directly toward my destination, taking me across the class C to
the surface airspace.". If a different controller told him to cross
into class C, then it's legal to ENTER class C. However I simple call
by this pilot with the phrase "Can I enter Class Charlie?" would have
done wonders to clear things up between the pilot and the new
controller.

I teach students that yes, you follow the FAR's. However when in
doubt or confused, TALK TO THE CONTROLLER AND CLEAR IT UP! You have a
brain, use it. There has been many accidents where lack of
communication was the cause. Most students want to act professional
and DON'T ask questions on the radio. However MORE private pilots
THINK since they have a license they don't NEED to ask questions.
This problem is compounded when flying with a fellow pilot, they don't
want to look stupid in front of a peer. I have more respect for a
pilot that will put their ego aside and ask a question over one that
pretends they are Mr. Right Stuff.

All this debate BS above is nice for the day after. However you need
to remember to teach the proper responce when you don't have the
luxery of time to think a problem through. Aviate, Navigate and
Communicate.

I take it that your capitals are directed at those of us continuing the
debate beyond its useful life. Otherwise, I pitty your poor students.

You are correct that, when unsure, we should not be affraid to ask for
clarification. In this case, the flying pilot wasn't unsure. He did what he
thought was permissible. He had no reason to ask for clarification from the
controller.

If the non-flying pilot thought it was wrong, he should have said so. Maybe
the CRM wasn't what it should be. Maybe it didn't occur to him until he was
on the ground. For whatever reason, the non-flying pilot must not have been
sure enough of himself to question it in the air. He was right to voice it
at some time, for his own education.

I happen to believe that the pilot was correct, did not need to ask for
permission and was free to enter the class C. But, thanks to all this debate
BS, I at least now know that it may not be clear cut. The next time I talk
to the controllers at my home base, I'll ask them.

-------------------------------
Travis