On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:56:11 GMT, EDR wrote:

In article urJzc.46043$0y.44191@attbi_s03, m pautz
wrote:

Pete, I understand that airplanes spend most of their time out of glide
range of airports; so do many gliders. You mentioned that, "It's
much more important that one be able to make a gliding power-off
approach and landing to *somewhere*" That is my point exactly. My
point is that the power pilots of today are not being taught a valuable
safety feature, how to fly a pattern without power. I am not making a
judgment call on what should or should not be done as a matter of
course; that is up to you power guys. What I am saying is that it
should be taught and regularly practiced.

It is not "required" until the Commercial checkride. The standard that
took effect last year is a 180 degree, power off abeam the approach end
of the runway, landing.

:-)) On my last bi-ennual check ride we did a bunch of instrument
work and then the instructor said "as this is your airplane I'd like
you to simulate an engine out in what ever manner you are most
comfortable." I pulled it back to idle. He then said, "OK we've had a
power failure, how about finding a place to land.

We were over 4 miles...I think close to 5 miles west of the airport.

Having just come out from under the hood I had a good idea of our
location. I established best glide while "looking for a spot" which in
this case was the airport. We were at 4000 as I recall.

At any rate, at best glide we were *high* when we reached the airport.
I actually flew the pattern (more or less) with a steep slipping
U-turn to the end of the runway. We were down and stopped in about
900 feet. He commented that from our altitude he thought I'd never
get it on that 3000 foot runway let alone stopped in the first 900
feet.

I do this in a 3100# high performance retract and the flight schools,
or instructors drill it into to the students in the trainers.

My point is although not called that, the emergency procedures are
exactly that... Power off landings to a particular spot and they are
often far more than just doing the pattern. I see a lot of power off
landings in the trainers at 3BS. Normally the ones with the wide
patterns are the pilots who have been flying a while, who don't like
stalls and haven't done one since the last bi-ennual flight review.
They don't like anything other than something close to a standard rate
turn and when landing add 10 MPH for safety, 5 for the kids, 10 for
the wife and at least the full gust factor if not more. Oh, and they
rarely fly with an instructor except for the dreaded bi-ennual flight
review.

Perhaps other areas are not doing so, but I see both power and non
powered landings. Every few weeks I pull the power abeam the
numbers on the way out just to keep in practice.

However I would point out that a so called "normal, by-the-book
landing" in mine is carrying quite a bit of power. No, that is not a
shallow, dragging it in final, it's steep! Far steeper than a power
off landing and quite a bit slower. It varies between 75 to 80 with a
power off landing being at 90 MPH. That extra 10 to 15 MPH uses a
*LOT* of runway.

The real eye opener is to do a power off, "no flap" landing. You
will use most of the 3000 foot runway even with heavy braking and the
nose is so high you can only see the runway through the side windows.
I have to admit though, you can barely even tell when the mains touch
down. :-))

Of course the real ego deflator is landing in a gusty wind only to
find 6 or 7 pilots standing by the gate holding up signs to grade the
landing snicker

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com