"C Kingsbury" wrote
Both could make an argument as to why- my CFII felt that an instrument
student in the Northeast ought to be trained in all four seasons, and in
actual conditions as much as possible, and you just couldn't do that in ten
days.

Training in actual is great when you can (I certainly do, every chance
I get) but there are places where you just CAN'T. In places like
Arizona, there is basically no IMC you can fly in a Skyhawk. Now
what? Training in all 4 seasons means you need to take a full year
for the instrument. Lots of people are on a tighter schedule.

Finally, there is this issue - an experienced VFR pilot already knows
a lot about the weather. He can probably do just fine without being
exposed to all 4 seasons. A low time inexperienced pilot is another
story - but I don't see why he needs an instrument rating anyway.

My seaplane school made a point of teaching more than the barebones
basics the PTS requires, as they felt that a pilot who knew only the PTS
could not in fact be a safe seaplane pilot.

And they are DEMONSTRABLY right. If the training was adequate, you
could rent a seaplane solo. A flight school that will rent you a
sepalane solo is probably providing adequate seaplane training. One
that won't is not. It's really that simple. Will the seaplane school
you attended rent you the plane solo?

Now, is anyone alleging that All ATPS has an "in" with an examiner who cuts
their students slack?

I've certainly seen such allegations floated in the Houston area. The
examiner they used to use the most has in fact lost his designation.

Otherwise we have to concede that their students are
at least passing their checkrides honestly, and it's the same PTS everyone
else uses.

Look, we all know there is lots of room for interpretation in the PTS.
And when an examiner KNOWS that he's doing a checkride with someone
who is not going to be able to exercise the privileges of the
certificate without a lot more training, there's certainly little
incentive to flunk the guy.

Most examiners I know really use the "smoking hole" standard - will
this guy be able to exercise the privileges he is seeking without
making a smoking hole? If so, why not give him the ticket?

In the case of an ATP rating in a small airplane, there are no
privileges. It's a vanity rating. Yeah, I'm a big man, I'm an ATP.
With that and five bucks, you can get a cup of coffee at Starbuck's.
Maybe it will help get a job, but you're still not getting into the
left seat without plenty of experience in the right and significant
formal training.

Local guys and smaller shops always grouse about bigger assembly-line
operations because they can't compete with their prices. Sometimes the local
guys do in fact provide better quality, too. I'm glad I went with my grumpy
old local CFII and spent 14 months getting my IR, now that I'm done with it.
But as I'm contemplating moving past that, I'm also starting to see the
advantages of the "puppy store" for some things. Heck, my grouchy CFII even
suggested that I "go to Florida to get your commercial done fast and
cheaper, them come back here to do your CFI with me."

You know, I did a "minimum effort" commercial multi. I did it with an
AllATP's grad. In one way, I really admire her ability. She knew
EXACTLY how much training we needed to do so that I would be able to
just squeak by on the ride with that examiner (the one who lost his
designation) on a bad day. I had a bad day and squeaked through. I
couldn't do that for a student. I just don't know how. We train till
you know it, and then the checkride is a non-event.

I'd be interested of course to hear why the training approach taken by All
ATPs is worse than the way most ratings get done everywhere else anyway.

Well, when I did my ATP, I actually took some lessons with a real,
live, practicing ATP - meaning someone who actually had a job that
requires an ATP - pilot in command of a large passenger-carrying
crewed aircraft operating under a certificate. I would not have
gotten that at AllATP's - and it made all the difference in the world
in understanding what being one was all about, what the checkride was
really traying to test, etc. I could have passed the checkride
without that - but I wouldn't have gotten much out of it. As it was,
I learned important things about MANAGING workload rather than just
HANDLING it. I learned about the difference between maneuvers
training and LOFT, and why (surprisingly) most errors are made at the
LOFT level. I learned things about utilizing a copilot - even one not
qualified in the aircraft - to enhance safety.

I know people who got the rating through AllATP's - and it's not part
of what they learn. They learn to pass the ATP checkride.

Michael