AJW wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote
"Frank....H" wrote


We want to be the best test takers in the world!

You know, everyone makes fun of this -- but what other option is there?
How else can you measure the overall success of an educational system
than
by using standardized tests?


snip


No easy answers that's for sure. What I really object to is the emphasis
placed on these standardized tests. It seems they are the sole
determinant and they are too unreliable to be given so much weight.

Okay, so...what other options *are* there? We're talking about millions
of students here -- how can we assess our national educational system
without some sort of standardized testing?

There are no other ways to fairly do it. And, if people are dead-set
against standardized testing, the only other viable alternative is to tell
the Feds to stay out of education altogether, and leave it up to the
states. But then you end up with a national disgrace like the East St.
Louis district... (And hundreds of others like it.)

There are no easy answers. No Child Left Behind is, at least, an attempt
to
fix the system. But it's going to need some significant modifications to
make it work.

For what it's worth, you may remember that piece of paper in your pocket
that grants you the right to fly had as one of its components a written
test. Would you want to flay as a passanger with someone as PIC who could
NOT pass the written? I'm talking about the general case, not some special
case you might use as an example.

The issue of testing, I think, has to do with test design, as opposed to
testing or not testing. A well designed test in fact measures what it's
supposed to, without too many false positives or false negatives. I would
rather have a panel of peer selected experts design a test to determine
how well for example a teacher's class is learning instead of hearing that
teacher's opinion, or even that teacher's supervisor's opinion.


You said it Jay, there are no easy answers. I would add there are no cheap
ones either. AJW uses the analogy of our pilot certificates and the written
portion of obtaining them. He goes on to point out the flaws of
standardized tests. I would expand it however to include the whole process.

So to answer to you question 'what other option is there' might include a
provision to evaluate the students in an additional way so as to augment
the standardized tests. A 'practical' standards test as it were.

Again, I don't advocate eliminating the tests altogether. I'm just very
concerned that there is too much emphasis put on the results of one test.
Especially given what we know about the flaws of such a test. I do believe
the federal government has a role though.

Part of their role should be to set some minimum standards regarding
equipment, class size, etc. A large part of what is wrong with the current
system is that it attempts to equate the results of learning opportunities
afforded a student in a school with plenty of computers and 1:25 teacher
student ratio with one limited to hand me down text books who talks to a
teacher once a week.

It isn't right to punish schools that are deemed to be doing poorly in the
absence of a way to measure whether or not they have the resources required
to meet those standards.


--
Frank....H