That's why I gave a very specific example and also mentioned proper rigging,
which includes that the elevator actually moves within the design
deflections at annual time. There's also no accounting for pilots that
can't coordinate a 60deg bank or think a 45deg bank is 60degs. Of course
there are gliders that will flick into a spin with little or no warning from
this attitude, so try it at altitude, away from the crowd, and with your
instructor if necessary.

Frank

"Dave Martin" wrote in message
...
The danger here is that we are talking theory where
we may start to confuse pilots. It is harder to stall
with 60 degrees of bank. Gliders like the K13, by
design run out of elevator in straight and level flight.
They are difficult when flown with heavy pilots to
develop more than a mushing stall in sraight and level
flight.

Put light -- bottom weigh pilots in and they become
a different glider.

The Puchacz on the other hand has plenty of rear elevator
even when banked, quite steeply.

There can be some dangerous assumptions that gliders
will not spin.

The pilot must know the limitations and characteristics
of the glider he/she is flying. This can only be achieved
by carefully experimenting with different configurations
and different flight situations.

Gliders with reputations that they will not spin, can
catch pilots out who load them wrongly, fly them badly
or worse combine both.

Dave Martin

Get some empirical experience. Hop in a G-103, circle
at 60deg bank and
bring the stick back to the stop. If properly rigged,
it will not stall.
Do the same in straight and level flight. It will
stall, in a mushy sort of
way depending on loading. Also, in a G-103, you will
get more elevator
authority in tight turns by moving the trim forward.

This is not true of all gliders, but clearly in a 60deg
bank, the G-103 is
stall proof by design.

Frank Whiteley