"Bill Daniels" wrote:


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:3fa5f571$1@darkstar...
In power planes I often wondered how high I would need to turn around,
and the biggest difference seemed to be how well I was climbing.
In a heavy Piper Arrow on a hot day, We couldn't climb fast enough
to ever glide back regardless how high we went if we did a
straight out or 45 departure. Departing downwind was another story,
of course.

On hot days with heavy loads at Avenal, the tug sometimes turns very
gently at low altitudes to downwind. I recall flying a two seater open
cockpit on a very hot day and seeing miserable climb out of us
and the 150/150. In our case not a problem with all the
flat ground, but still a bit disconcerting to be
so far out and low...

Back in around 1970 a power instructor who had witnessed glider 200 foot 180
turns back to the runway wanted to try some in a Cessna 150. I rode with
him as we tried a few at a safe altitude. The 150 was one of the old ones
with a straight tail and manual flaps.

The glider technique of a 45 degree banked turn was very marginal. We then
experimented with some more aggressive maneuvers. The best seem to be a
sort of diving 180 degree rolling turn with a pullout from the dive on the
reciprocal heading. We came out of the dive headed towards the runway at
high airspeed but in ground effect which got us to the runway with ease.

Once we were confident of our technique, we tried a few at Caddo Mills, TX.
At the time, Caddo Mills was just abandoned runways with no buildings or
fences and surrounded by alfalfa fields. The 45 degree turn never made it
back but the diving roll did work if you were quick and aggressive.

We both agreed that the conventional instruction of not trying a 180 below
about 500 feet was best.

Bill Daniels

Many years ago a highly respected aerobatic pilot in UK (still working
today) wrote an article in our Pilot magazine on this subject. He
reminded us that three things were required:
1. A rapid 180 degree change of heading.
2. Minimum loss of height.
3. Normal airspeed at the end of the manoever.
Controversially, he maintained that a highly banked slipping turn
satisfies all three criteria. The rate of decent is very high during
the turn, but the duration is so short that it results in less height
loss than either of the two alternatives (eg:slow and gentle or fast
and furious), and the airspeed is normal throughout.
Just don't forget to keep loads of top rudder on.

- Colin