If you read the other thread about spinning you may understand what
experienced pilots do.
Recovery from incipient spins might be just a sligh easing of the stick with
slight opposite rudder pressure.
No need to dive inside the thermal.

However, the only way to recognize this condition is to train for it, while
also training for fully developed spins, resulting from level attitudes with
pro-turn rudder and low speed (a definite killer in low altitudes).

The reference to the more benign spin characteristic of some training
airplanes is true.
In some of them you don't need to move the stick full forward to recover
from a spin.
Basically the spin breaks off very easily with just a sligh easing of the
control column forward and opposite rudder.
Full forward stick will only cause an excessively nose-low attitude
resulting in a high-speed dive following the spin.
But this is only true in certain aircraft, and if the pilot trains in them
he will recognize this.

The Puchacz has a similar characteristic, actually.
If you press opposite rudder while keeping the stick aft, nothing much
happens for a full turn (I never went beyond that).
But with this opposit rudder applied, as soon as back pressure on the stick
is removed, the glider sort of "snaps" out of the spin.
There is no need to move the stick all the way forward or you will then be
in an aerobatic, 90 degree nose-low dive.
Unnecessary.

As I pointed out earlier, Dick Johnson tested the Puchacz and gave it a
clean bill of health.
www.ssa.org, click on Magazines, Dick Johnson, scroll down to find the
Puchacz evaluations (2 articles).


"Mike Borgelt" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:56:36 -0700, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:


Asked about the delay in recovery, the pilot said that the standard
recovery
technique used in the powered aircraft he had been flying was just to
reverse the rudder and to keep the stick aft of center. I pointed out
that
every glider I knew of required forward stick for a sure recovery. (We
did
several more spins until we both were comfortable with his spin recovery
technique.)

I think the take-home lesson is that airplanes can spin more benignly
than
gliders. Relying on spin training in airplanes is just not always
appropriate and can leave the pilot with misconceptions about glider spin
recovery.

I think the gentleman's spin recovery training was suspect. Since when
was standard spin recovery other than:

Full opposite rudder
Pause
Move the stick forward
When the spin stops centralise rudder and recover gently from the
dive?

Even if the aircraft recovers with mere application of opposite rudder
surely the full standard recovery must be taught?

The fatality in the Blanik here a few years ago was that the spin
became a spiral so even the Blanik won't necessarily stay in a spin.

I think that, if you fly gliders that will spin, it is wise to experience
the spin recovery at least once and preferably more often than that.

As I said I agree. Note however you cannot do this in all types that
you fly. Some like the Standard Libelle and Nimbus 3DM are placarded
against deliberate spins.

That said, there is nothing wrong with basic training that emphasizes
recognition of an incipient spin over spin recovery. Recognition that a
spin is imminent, and knowledge of the technique to prevent it, will save
more lives than expert spin recovery.

So, is spin training dangerous? Yes, but much less dangerous than not
doing
spin training. The path from novice to expert is sometimes fraught with
peril but remaining a novice is more dangerous still. The Puch, Blanik,
and
Lark spin more like the glass gliders most of us fly. As such, they are
excellent trainers. Just choose an instructor that is very experienced
with
them.

Bill Daniels

When two testpilot/spin instructors, at least one of whom had
extensive spin experience in gliders can kill themselves in a Puch by
spinning in I wonder how much experience the instructor has to have?

The experienced cross country pilots I know never spin accidently. At
most they may get a wing drop in a thermal. The question is what do
they know or do that prevents them from ever spinning accidently?
If we find this out we might make some progress.

Mike