On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:40:28 UTC, Todd Pattist
wrote:

: "Ian Johnston" wrote:

: But fundamentally, sorry, I don't believe
: that Puchacz's - or any other certified gliders - kill competent
: instructors. It's a hell of a way to find out, though, that you are
: not - or the guy behind you is not - a competent instructor.
:
: So your answer to my question seems to be that 1) anything
: that's certified is safe enough by definition,

No, I mean it has been carefully checked and found to be safe at
anything a competent instructor should be asking it to do.

: and 2) you or
: those you deem "competent" are better than those who've
: died?

If I've stayed within my ability limits and survived, and they have
strayed beyond their's and died then, yes. Bluntly.

: We agree that there can be bad instructors, but wouldn't the
: accidents be spread among other glider types? Regardless of
: the cause, it's worthwhile for those who do spin training to
: look at their procedures, their aircraft and their
: instructors in light of these accidents and decide if
: improvements can be made.

Agreed completely.

: Minimum heights for spin entries,
: parachutes,

Agreed partially. Might lead to the curse of over rule-dependence and
under brain-dependence which seems to be creeping through the gliding
movement.

: limitations on which instructors give the
: instruction,

No, no, no, a thousand times no! Well, two "no"s anyway:

1) My main worry about spin training at the moment is that it's very
often presented in such a way (special aircraft or special
preparation) that the pupil assumes it doesn't happen in normal
flights. So even if they know, in theory, how to get out of a spin,
they get into one at a height where that knowledge is fatally useless
- because it just won't happen. Having to get a special instructor to
do spin training will only make this worse.

2) Instructors ought to be able to recover from spins (in controlled
situations). If they can't they bleeding well shouldn't be
instructing.

: perhaps simple extra ground checks of foot
: clearance and full rudder throw prior to a spin training
: flight might help.

I'd have thought that was covered by pre-launch checks anyway. And it
should be, on the basis that every flight is a spin flight, just as
every winch launch will see a cable break ...

Ian
: Be careful out there!
: Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
: (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)


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