Todd Pattist wrote:

However, more often the way I've heard it used, it includes
an informal assumption that the "good" high speed
performance also includes a "good enough" thermalling
performance that the glider can climb in a wind broken
thermal and resume upwind progress.


I've heard it mean the first part (like a jumbo jet),
but have never heard it used to mean it also has good
enough thermalling performance. A glider which did both
(good L/D at high speeds, and good minimum sink rate)
would be nice, but I'd still use the terms seperately
myself.

Aha! I remember the first time I heard it, at Sunset beach.
It was flying model gliders, and we added ballast to
improve "penetration" into the wind associated with ridge lift.

So I never heard it with any reference to thermals at all.

I'd say Todd's definition refers to "the act of flying a glider
in such a way as to make good progress into the wind" which
is slightly different (and a bit more complex) from simply
gliding well into the wind.

For now, I suppose I'll say "patato" and he'll say "potatoe"...