Great information, Gus!

Many models of sailplane require holding opposite aileron to maintain
the spin, otherwise it transitions into a spiral dive. It is very
possible that Puchacz pilots are doing exactly this, then returning
the ailerons to neutral to perform a normal recovery after the spin
goes flat. Your suggestion, then, is to put the the stick into the
inside wing (raise the aileron on the higher drag wingtip) and pause
as a precursor to initiating normal spin recovery?

Another question for you...

Do your aerobatics texts discuss the suitability of different
types/models of aircraft for aerobatics? Are there models that are
suitably stressed, but not ideal because of control issues (too
little, too much...)?

(Gus Rasch) wrote in message . com...
(JJ Sinclair) wrote in message ...
I'm surprised this spin thread hasn't produced more discussion of the flat
spin. One poster told us about getting into a flat spin after several
revolutions of a "normal" spin" at Minden when the Puch went flat (nose on
horizon). The poster thought it was kind of thrilling, until he applied spin
recovery controls (opposite rudder & forward stick) The Puch continued to flat
spin for another 5 or 6 revolutions. This spin started at 12,000 feet. Had it
been initiated at a much lower altitude, we might be investigating yet another
Puch-in. Has anyone else had the Puch go into a flat spin?

Perhaps those who have are no longer with us?
JJ Sinclair



Group,

As a Pitts owner and pilot who flies a LOT of aerobatics I thought I
would chime in on a possible reason for the Puchs' delayed recovery
from the flat spin.

The quickest and most assured method of exiting a flat spin is to
first convert it to a conventional spin and then exit that spin mode.

In a Pitts you get the spin to go flat by adding opposite aileron.
Take away the the opposite aileron and it returns to a conventional
spin. The puch most likely flatens out the same way.

More than one Pitts pilot has pounded in while trying to exit a flat
spin before first converting it to a conventional spin. This delay in
recovery from a flat spin could find you establishing a new bottom to
the aerobatic box.

It is therefore imperative to not add opposite aileron while spinning
(in an attempt to pick up the low wing) or risk having it go flat. If
you do find yourself in a developed flat spin you need to confirm that
you have not added opposite aileron and/or add a little pro-spin
aileron to assist in returning the aircraft to a conventional spin and
then recover from that spin mode.

All that said, I must also add that I have never flown the Puch. All
the above is based on aerobatics in a Pitts. I am not a CFIG or the
current world aerobatic champ. This is information that my CFIG has
instilled in me and is supported by many books on aerobatics that I
have read. It has also been proven to myself time and time again in
practical application.

Anybody up for a discussion on inverted accelerated flat spins?!

Gus Rasch
Pitts S1S
N21JF