Don, I agree with you completely. You have made the points which I have
been trying to put.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"Don Johnstone" wrote in
message ...

When I made my original post on this subject my contention
was quite simple, if faced with the choice of exceeding
VNE or pulling to avoid exceeding VNE and overstressing
the glider I would choose the latter. I would hope
that I would never get to the situation where I had
to do either and if I keep my wits about me I never
will. I stand by what I said but this was not an original
thought, it was the advice of someone who knows a great
deal more than me.

An earlier posting said 'Also, I find it a bit strange
that some here feel that it is possible to over-G a
sailplane to damage, but not destruction. It seems like a fine point to
me and there are several examples of unlucky souls who have
misjudged the point'. Of course it is possible but
I accept it is purely a matter of luck. I never made
the above statement, I did say that overstress may
cause serious damage, but flutter is much more likely
to be catastrophic.

With some gliders there is such a large margin between
placarded limits and the forces the airframe will withstand
that overstressing is definitely the lesser of 2 evils.
The Grob Acro is a perfect example of this. One of
the Acros delivered to the RAF in the UK in the 80's
was given to Slingsbys to test on a rig. After the
'normal' testing (The wing spigot problem was discovered
in this test and I was told that had this failed in
flight the airframe would probably have stayed in one
piece). Following this attempts were then made to break
the glider but despite every effort the only thing
that broke was the test rig, the glider never did.
There is no such margin for the onset of flutter. Not
all gliders have the strength of the Grob I would agreed
but there is still a margin of some sort.

The way the whole thing was explained to me was that
pulling excess G may break the glider, in particular
it may cause damage to the wing/fuselage fixing but
this damage is not necessarily total (See above re
wing spigot problem). The damage caused by flutter
is much more likely to cause total failure not only
of the wing but other aerodynamic surfaces as well
(the tailplane and fin) and a glider without a tailplane/fin
is not where I would want to be. I am told that the
weakest point on any glider is the fuselage just in
front of the fin. Again I am told that when an aircraft
breaks up in flight the cause is almost invariably
flutter, the result of overspeed, whether this is preceded
by overstress causing loss of control or not.

There has been a lot of use of words such as rubbish
and other derogatory terms. You do not have to agree
with me but I would suggest that perhaps you might
be better researching and then posting a cogent argument
why I am wrong instead of just gainsaying. (Remember
the Python :-) UK joke).

I stand by my original post, faced with the choice
of exceeding VNE or pulling too much G I would chose
the latter as the lesser of two very great evils.