My opinion:

Starts and finishes are announced on the radio. No TP's before even
an unclaimed re-start are usable. No TP's after even an unclaimed
earlier finish are usable. Not only that but the required on-site
landing to get speed points must occur at the end of the very flight
containing all claimed control points.

Otherwise chaos:

The rules don't permit "stealth" finishes, although the scorekeeper
might not notice one:

10.9.3.4.1 When four miles from the cylinder perimeter, the pilot
shall transmit "[Contest ID] four miles."
10.9.3.4.2 Upon entering the finish cylinder, the pilot shall transmit
"[Contest ID] finished." If the finish is
substantially above the bottom of the finish cylinder, the altitude
may be included; altitude should be
announced as either MSL or AGL.
10.9.4.3 Communications
When four miles from the finish gate, the pilot shall transmit
"[Contest ID] four miles." The Gate Director will
respond, "[Contest ID]."

So the question is can a pilot call multiple starts/finishes and
choose the best scoring one?

There is a rule explicitly permitting using the best-scoring start
(10.8.2.1). I can't find a rule prohibiting multiple finishes. But
still, I think the intention is that any TPs in hand are zapped by
re-starting and that the first finish must be used. I just can't find
a rule that says so.

Turnpoint shenanigans aside, if one entered the finish cylinder too
low, called a finish, climbed up and re-finished high enough, could
one use the better scoring finish?

To preclude undertime penalties and keep more options open, how about
this? On a long soaring day can one start, fly the designated sequence
of TP's, start again at the "optimal" time, fly the designated
sequence again, and finish? And claim the best of twice around, the
first attempt, or the second attempt afterwards?

10.5.1.2 Flight documentation must show that control points were
achieved in the proper sequence;
out-of-sequence points shall be ignored.

Are TP's between two starts or two finishes "out of sequence", even if
they are between the claimed valid start and the claimed good finish?
I think this is the intention of the rules. That any start, claimed
or not, wipes prior TPs, and any finish, claimed or not, wipes
subsequent TPs.

11.2.2.4.4 If all claimed turnpoints are valid, and the pilot
obtained a scored start time, a finish time prior to finish closing
and landed at the contest site, then the pilot has completed the task.

The landing is not a control point, so does it have to follow the
finish to satisfy 10.5.1.2 and 11.2.2.4.4? Can jailhouse lawyers
relight to get in the required on site landing before the task opens?
It's no good doing a flight after your retrieve to get the finish or
on-site landing in, because 10.8.2.1 does in the starts from your
previous flights.

10.8.2.1 A valid start is a start obtained after the task has opened
and after the pilot's last launch. A pilot must
have a valid start to be given a scored start time. In general, the
best-scoring valid start is used.

Rule 10.8.2.1 also seems to preclude landing, turning in
documentation, and trying again. Each launch would invalidate the the
starts of the previous flight. But trying again on a second flight is
explicitly permitted elsewhere in the rules.

Glad I'm not a lawyer or rule writer. Tough job to avoid loopholes
and contradictions.

Jonathan Gere

(John Cochrane) wrote in message . com...
The obscure provision of the rules that stops you from keeping one
"finish" in the bag and trying for more is this one:

11.2.2.4.4 If all claimed turnpoints are valid, and the pilot
obtained a scored start time, a finish time prior to finish closing
and landed at the contest site, then the pilot has completed the task.

Note "And landed at the contest site." Yes, you can go back and go
deeper into the last turn, and you can also try more turnpoints on an
MAT, but if you land out you don't get to call your pass by the
airport a "finish".

Similarly, you can fly the whole course again if you like. However, if
you land out the second time around, the first one can only count for
distance points, not for speed points. Thus, it's usually a good idea
to land, turn in the trace, and take off again if you want to do the
task a second time.

However, as far as I can tell, you CAN call your first passage the
"finish" for scoring purposes if you're willing to take the land-out
risk. For example, if you try another turnpoint in a MAT but then turn
around and land home, or even if you make it but it gives you a slower
time overall, nothing stops you from calling the first passage a
"finish."

The flight documentation interval is the time between LANDING and
turning in the score, not the time between FINISHING and turning in
the score

10.10.1.1 Flight Documentation Interval (FDI)
This is the maximum time that may elapse between a landing at the
contest site and the submission of a Landing Card and flight
documentation to the Scorer. When not otherwise designated by the CD,
a value of 1 hour shall be used.

Does anyone disagree with this interpretation? I can't find a "finish
time interval" (nor can edit find in the SSA rules) between the time
of finish and landing.

John Cochrane BB



Mark Zivley wrote in message . com...
If you have a Turn Area Task and you fly into turn 1, then fly into turn
2 then pass through the finish circle could/should it be possible to
leave the finish circle and return to turn 2 and fly deeper into the
circle than you did the first time and then return to the finish circle?

On an option task, you could return to the finish, leave and attempt to
go to an additional turnpoint, but if you landed out you could (if I
understand this correctly) fill out your landing card as you had
finished the first time and not be penalized for the landout. However,
if you successfully made an additional turnpoint and returned to the
finish point you could then add that distance to your task (via landing
card) if you so chose.

If you can do that for an option task, could one apply similar logic to
the TAT as I describe above. Take a "finish" to make sure you didn't
land out, and if conditions improved then go back to the last turn point
and fly to a farther point within the circle. There is no credit for
adding an additional turnpoint, just pushing the second turnpoint mark
farther out for a longer distance calculation for the original task.

Winscore does not allow this in it's current thinking and it's kind of a
moot point because a change in our score wouldn't change our standing
for either the day or the overall, but it certainly begs for a
clarification. It might be nice to clarify this point in the rules
because someone might enter the finish cylinder one day without any
intent to "finish", but receive a "finish" from Winscore they weren't
expecting.

Mark