In article ,
Roy Smith wrote:

Ron Garret wrote:
Is there an easy way to pull up all the plates for a particular airport
on line?

I like www.airnav.com. I'm sure there are others.

I can only find one plate per URL here, just like all the other sources
of approach plates that I'm aware of. Am I missing something?

I did ask where COOGA was (actually I asked how it was spelled), but
neither I nor the controller picked on the fact that we had a major
disconnect going on.

Controllers are good at answering the questions you ask. You asked,
"How do you spell that", and he gave the right answer, "Charlie Oscar
Oscar Golf Alpha". You didn't ask anything more, so he assumed you
were happy. There's no reason for him to assume that "How do you
spell that" should also imply, "and just why the heck do you want me
to go there?"

No, it implied that I wasn't familiar with COOGA, which in turn implied
that I wasn't familiar with the approach that he thought I was supposed
to be flying.

The controller did express surprise that I wasn't familiar with COOGA

How did he "express surprise"? Did he say, "I'm surprised you aren't
familiar with COOGA"?

I don't remember the exact phraseology, but it was something like, "If
you're going to be flying around here you'd better get to know COOGA
intersection."

It sounds like you should intercept the LAX-323, fly that northwest to
IPIHO, then eastbound direct VNY, then continue with your clearance.

Yes, that's what it sounds like, but that can't be right. Continuing
with the clearance at that point would require making a 180 degree turn
(more or less) with no charted procedure for doing so (probably because
there are mountains on both sides).

I can only assume that the procedure designers took this into
account. Looking at the ILS-16R plate, I'd guess the highest point
within several miles of VNY is the 1520 which looks about 4 miles north of
VNY. You didn't mention what initial altitude you were given, but I'm sure
it was at least 2000.

4000. Maybe that's why the departure is designed the way it is. They
want you give you essentially a clockwise 360 to get up to cruising
altitude before heading West.

I also don't know what you're flying

An SR22.

, but assuming
120 KTAS, turn diameter at standard rate is about 1.3 nm. If the turn
really was almost 180 degrees, there's nothing to keep you from making it a
right turn, away from the terrain.

Do the TERPsters really expect someone to figure that out on the fly?


And why to IPIHO? The lost comm procedure doesn't mention IPIHO. They
just say to intercept LAX323 and then as assigned.

I see what you're getting at. There is a certain amount of ambiguity here.
I don't see anything in the procedure which says IPIHO. It does say to
intercept the LAS-323, and your first en-route fix is VNY, so I just
figured following a heavy black line made sense.

Turning left to SUANA (which is an IAF for the GPS approach) makes sense
too. But I'm not talking about what makes sense, I'm talking about the
rules.

I'm not so concerned with the mechanics of flying the approach in this
case as I am just figuring out what the rules say I'm supposed to do.
It really seems to me like this clearance had a bug in it, and it should
have been Canoga 8, COOGA, direct, not Canoga 8, VNY, direct.

Well, from the ground, that's really no better than what you got, since
none of the CNOG8 transitions get you to COOGA.

None of them get you to VNY either.

rg