On 3/27/05 6:21 PM, in article ,
"Cockpit Colin" wrote:


"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi John,
I had the pleasure of flying most all the F4 models made for the Navy
[snip]
Nasty and unrecoverable flat spin mode, not as bad
as the F-14 but usually resulted in either a punch out or a mort. So
you didn't spin it, simple enough.


Newby question here - I've always been curious as to why any aircraft in the
1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio class (F/A-18? F4? F14? etc) would have
trouble being able to "simply" power out flat spins / falling leafs etc.

Can anyone give me a bit on an insight?


That 1:1 thing is a sort of fallacy in many cases. It assumes a combat
loaded aircraft (air-to-air load) at half fuel with the motor being run at
sea level--large amount of static sea-level rated thrust on a relatively
light aircraft... Hence the 1:1 ratio. Most spins and departures occur at
much higher altitudes where the thrust of the motor is quite a bit lower.
At higher altitudes, the T:W may be less than 1:1.

Also keep in mind that if you're spinning, the thrust is spinning with you.
Adding full power (providing your jet isn't susceptible to compressor stalls
at slow speed and high alpha) simply adds a thrust vector that rotates with
the jet. It's not effective in "powering the jet out" of a spin.

A falling leaf is essentially a spin with no established rotation. The
aircraft establishes itself in a coupled departure mode. Thrust MAY help
power you out depending on aircraft configuration and altitude... I think
there were some Marines that claimed to have powered out of the falling leaf
in the Hornet, but most folks don't have a lot of success with it. IIRC,
adding power in the falling leaf INCREASES time to recover.

This is all without reviewing the NATOPS notes on falling leaf recoveries.
Any TPS dudes want to sing out here?

--Woody