At 13:30 22 April 2005, Don Johnstone wrote:
Heresay evidence, blind assumption and lack of experience
in the glider concerned all put together is enough
for a hanging is it.

I don't think anyone has suggested that the pilot here
was directly at fault, rather that it was maybe unwise
(even in the absence of an accident) to send passengers
up with a relatively inexperienced pilot. In the case
of an inexperienced pilot coming to grief, you have
to look at the training he received (in this case recently)
to find out what could be done better. This is not
a world champion that pushed his/her luck too far.

If the poor bloke was still alive you could lock him
up in Guant�namo. He may have been al-Qaida, a mass
murderer perhaps or anything else you care to pull
out of the air.

.....1...2...3...4...5...

Why can you not wait for the results of the enquiry
and decide on the evidence instead of speculating about
the guilt of someone who cannot defend himself. Land
of the Free? Prove it.

I'd say open speculation (and disagreement) and the
fact that people make it is pretty much proof that
it is land of the free. Any speculation made now is
(in the reasonable persons mind) just that, speculation,
it can (and will) be revised as more evidence comes
to light and the NTSB inquiry progresses.
And as a previous poster said before, if I died in
a glider, I'd rather that the causes were gone over
and any lessons learnt, rather than my case being brushed
under the carpet. Accidents, and there causes shouldn't
be taboo, we can all learn something from them (unfortunately),
even from speculation. If we were all perfect pilots
then we could carry on as normal without looking at
these incidents (but then again there shouldn't be
any incidents then should there?).


I haven't actually expressed an opinion (intentionally
anyway) on the pilots ability and/or failings but to
shout down honest and open speculation is unwise and
possibly foolish....


Jamie



At 04:30 22 April 2005, Btiz wrote:
I remember that glider on the beach posting shortly
after it happened..

I do have some very limited time in the 2-32... the
one I flew I felt it was
very honest.. giving plenty of warning before the stall
with rumbling and
stick shaking..

one report that came from our local witness.. that
is not addressed in the
preliminary report... and taken with a few grains of
salt or sand...is that
the passengers reported that the stick was full back
the entire time when
the spin started... no forward movement to stop the
spin..

In less than one month.. this individual went from
Student Pilot certificate
issue.. to Private Pilot to Commercial Pilot... and
crashed. No mention is
made of his experience prior to receiving his student
pilot certificate. But
based on the documentation provided, one can expect
that he had worked up to
pre-solo before getting his student certificate and
quickly completed two
written exams and check rides. Not a good position
to put an insurance
company in.

BT

'F.L. Whiteley' wrote in message
...
I don't disagree, but there are other possibilities.

2-32 gives zippo spin warning, it tends to flick over
the top from a tight
turn.

I thought the local operators were a bit more discriminating,
requiring
some
referral. However, as I told my young friend, break
one and drop in the
ocean, the next week it would be old news there and
the rides would
continue.

Different operator, same location
http://www.soarcsa.org/glider_on_the_beach.htm

FWIW one suggestion was the 'extreme return'. Vertical
speed limiting
dive
to the numbers, rotate to landing. My young friend
thought this would be
a
big seller. But parachutes would cut down on useful
load. Shoe-horning
them in was the order of the day.

Frank





BTIZ wrote:

based on a witness report.. that is now flying here...
minimum experience.. lack of spin training...

I'd go with the lack of Airmanship..
BT

'F.L. Whiteley' wrote in message
...
Ramy wrote:

As usual, the NTSB report is useless. Doesn't
even
attempt to analyze
the cause for the accident.

One of my younger soaring friends hauled rides there
for a couple of
stints.
He clocked over 100 hours a month in 2-32's which
we reckoned may have
20,000 to 40,000 hours on them in all that salt air.
Airmanship or lack
of
it may have had nothing to do with this sad incident.