"A Guy Called Tyketto" wrote in message
m...

Thank you. This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to get at all
along in this thread. You *MUST* hear 'Cleared into Class Bravo
Airspace' to be allowed to enter Bravo airspace. That is your clearance
into it. Even the FARs state it:

Sec. 91.131 - Operations in Class B airspace.

(a) Operating rules. No person may operate an aircraft within a Class B
airspace area except in compliance with ?91.129 and the following
rules:

(1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility
having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that
area.

Some people just fail to understand that.


The regulation says the operator must receive an ATC clearance, it does not
state he *MUST* hear 'Cleared into Class Bravo Airspace' to be allowed to
enter Bravo airspace.



Even more than that, if they tell you to remain outside of
Bravo airspace, or any airspace, and give you a reason, pilots are
requested to read that back.


Previously you said it MUST be read back, now you say it's a REQUEST. What
caused you to change your mind? Where does ATC make this request known to
pilots?



ATC is going to expect a readback.


What makes you think that?



If not, they will repeat it.


What makes you think that?



If no readback is given, they aren't going to *ASSUME* anything.


If there's no response they're going to assume the message was not received
and repeat it. If the message is acknowledged but not read back they're
going to conclude the message was received and understood by the pilot and
that particular little matter is then closed. If the message is read back
they're going to conclude the message was received and understood by the
pilot and that particular little matter is then closed.



They aren't going to think 'oh, he heard it, let me
worry about separating my aircraft flying into JFK, LAS', or any major
field, they are going to get that readback from you, or send up the
F18s to escort you down/shoot you down, depending on how grave the
situation is.


What makes you think you know what ATC thinks?



Class C, on the other hand, requires 2-way comunication. When
that is established, unless told otherwise, you have clearance through
Class C airspace. If ATC tells you to not enter it, for whatever
reason, you don't enter it. In short, once again, if the 2-way
communication is established between pilot and ATC, the clearance
into/through Class C airspace is implied, and pilots may fly through.


So it no longer requires radar contact prior to entry?