In article ,
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"A Guy Called Tyketto" wrote in message
m...

Thank you. This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to get at all
along in this thread. You *MUST* hear 'Cleared into Class Bravo
Airspace' to be allowed to enter Bravo airspace. That is your clearance
into it. Even the FARs state it:

Sec. 91.131 - Operations in Class B airspace.

(a) Operating rules. No person may operate an aircraft within a Class B
airspace area except in compliance with ?91.129 and the following
rules:

(1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility
having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that
area.

Some people just fail to understand that.

The regulation says the operator must receive an ATC clearance, it does not
state he *MUST* hear 'Cleared into Class Bravo Airspace' to be allowed to
enter Bravo airspace.

I'm telling you, as well as the 7110.65P tells you, that you
will hear that. Going from the opposite direction, you will hear
something from Clearance Delivery, stating:

Mooney 64B, cleared out of Las Vegas Class Bravo Airspace. On
departure, turn left heading 160, climb/maintain 5000, departure
frequency 118.4, squawk 0633.

There's your clearance out of Bravo. If you're VFR, you'll hear
'Cleared into Class Bravo Airspace'. That's ATC regulations there, and
ATC are to adhere to that.

Funny. I flew KOAK / KMRY yesterday IFR on a routing that took me deep
into KSFO's Class B airspace and never *once* heard that magic phrase
"Cleared into Class Bravo...", on the ground or in the air, not even
when returning KMRY / KOAK through the Class B. Were NorCal -- or
Oakland and Monterey clearances -- wrong to not use that phrase (a
phrase I've yet to hear while flying IFR, despite having been in and out
of the KSFO Class B on a regular basis)? Will you be telling them
they're wrong next time you see them?

Is there some reason you think that the clearance I *did* get from
Oakland clearance -- "November XYZ, cleared to Monterey airport via the
NUEV0 5 departure, SHOEY transition, MUNSO, direct [then altitude and
frequency stuff, etc.]" wasn't sufficient to allow me to enter the KSFO
class B airspace? At what point am I supposed to hear the magic phrase
on a flight like this?

This thread has certainly had a sort of morbid entertainment value
watching you go up against Steven M, an experienced controller and pilot
-- basically, you seem to be a little out of your depth here...

Hamish