I should have stated "any airport with an IAP and no ODP"


" wrote in message
...
This has been valuable for me.

I was under the erroneous understanding that a departure folowing the "no
turns before 400feet, 200fpnm climb" rule would assure a safe departure
for
any airport with an IAP.

It appears that this is not true when takeoff minima are published. I did
not know this.

So, thanks to all the contributors for this.


wrote in message ...


Andrew Sarangan wrote:

I have not seen anyone directly answer the question raised by the
poster. What exactly is 'on-course'? Which airway are you supposed to
intercept? MSA may not be operational in nature, but it does tell us
there are 3200' ft obstacles within 25NM. If you proceed at 2300', how
can you remain clear of these obstacles?

How do you infer that you can proceed at 2,300 feet? That is a turn
restriction to avoid the antennas to the south. It is NOT a level off
altitude. With a ODP worded like this your minimum level-off altitude
is
either your ATC-assigned altitude, which should be (will be if issued
correctly) at, or above, the MEA of the route to be flown.

It's up to you, as the pilot, to fit the ODP with your filed or
clearance
route. This ODP is 40:1 clear once above close-in obstacles.
Apparently
the procedures specialist decided the close in obstacles were too
hazardous
to be overflown with a climb gradient, thus the ceiling and visibility
minimums.

Although Part 91 operators are not required to use takeoff minimums
anyone
who ignores mandatory ceiling/visibility minimums (as opposed to
standard
takeoff minimums) can be placing himself in harm's way, especially at an
airport where he lacks detailed local knowledge about the airport and
close-in obstacle hazards.

A case in point quite a few years ago was at KLGB (Long Beach,
California).
At about 3:00 AM a guy taxis out in an Aztec and wants a climb to on-top
because the weather is basically zero-zero in ground fog. He wanted
Runway
16L, which had a 600-1 mandatory (for commercial operators) take-off
minimum. The controller tried to convince the pilot to instead use
Runway
30, the ILS runway with standard takeoff minima (actually,
lower-than-standard for commercial operators because of lots of runway
markings and lights).

The pilot got his way and shortly after takeoff at about 500 feet, above
airport elevation, he crashed into a giant natural gas steel structure,
then, in a burning remains of an Aztec nose-dived into a warehouse,
through
the roof onto the concrete floor.

I remember it well, because I did some work on that needless, senseless
tragedy.

The 600-1 takeoff minimum for Runway 16L was for the natural gas storage
tank and associated steel structure.